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  • Microsoft aims to beat Linux through community spirit

    Found this gem

    Steve Ballmer tells a London audience that Microsoft developers must match the passion and energy of the Linux community, as well as producing better technology

    Although Microsoft cannot compete against Linux on price, the company will use its community of professionals to outsmart the open-source movement, Microsoft chief executive Steve Ballmer told an audience of Microsoft Most Valued Professionals (MVPs) in London on Monday.

    "Linux is a serious competitor," said Ballmer. "We have to compete with free software, on value, but in a smart way. We cannot price at zero, so we need to justify our posture and pricing. Linux isn't going to go away -- our job is to provide a better product in the marketplace."

    He acknowledged there was more to Linux than free software -- the main benefit of the open-source movement was the community developing software and sharing ideas. "Linux is not about free software, it is about community," he said. "It's not like Novell, it isn't going to run out of money -- it started off bankrupt, in a way."

    Technology like clustering would be better in Windows than Linux eventually, said Ballmer: "We will beat Linux on clusters. We can't beat them on price, but we have to add value."

    The MVP initiative will be a big part of Microsoft's efforts to promote a sense of "community" among users and developers, connecting its own product developers with the users most in touch with product issues.

    Microsoft is considering extending its shared-source initiative, currently limited to large users such as governments and universities, to MVPs. This would give them smart-card access to much of the Windows source code, he said. There will be a decision on this in the next couple of months, said Lori Moore, vice president of product support services at Microsoft. "There are many options on the table," she said. "There are many ways to be more open, and we are reviewing ideas."

    For nine years, the company has designated users with particular skills -- usually seen by how often they intervene helpfully in newsgroups -- as "most valued professionals". Currently there are about 1,200 MVPs, half of whom are in the US.

    The title is highly regarded, said Thomas Lee, a Windows 2000 MVP who specialises in directory issues, and has just been appointed as chief technologist at QA Training. "You are recognised by your peers, not by an exam that you can cheat in." Linux and its community have a symbiotic relationship, he said: "You don't have that same thing at Microsoft, but there are people who are passionate and technical who are committed to doing a great job."

    While Ballmer stopped short of advocating Microsoft's old "security through obscurity" policy, he pointed out that publicly posting bug fixes often prompted attacks. "The hacker waits till a fix is posted, then writes an attack and sends it out," he said. Such attacks are based on information in the fix. The answer is to make sure that fixes are easier to distribute and implement so the user base is up to date, he said.

    Asked by one lateral-thinking MVP whether Microsoft planned to offer applications software on Linux, Ballmer said no. "We do not anticipate offering software on Linux. Nobody pays for software on Linux." Even StarOffice, sold by Sun, was originally a free product, he said. And IBM, arguably the No. 1 player in the Linux market, promotes Linux to big users, but does not actually sell Linux: "It's weird! IBM says 'Hey British Aerospace! Buy Linux.... From SuSE."

    The big issue there, he said, was a reluctance to accept legal liability for open-source software.
    If there's artificial intelligence, there's bound to be some artificial stupidity.

    Jeremy Clarkson "806 brake horsepower..and that on that limp wrist faerie liquid the Americans call petrol, if you run it on the more explosive jungle juice we have in Europe you'd be getting 850 brake horsepower..."

  • #2
    They don't need to do that. I recently set up Red Hat 7.3, and MS will beat (already is beating) Linux through not SUCKING.

    Linux SUCKS. S U C K S SUCKS.

    It "came with" dozens of pieces of software. NONE OF THEM WORKED. I reinstalled everything.

    It's a festering, utter piece of crap.

    I used to be an MS supported. Now I'm an ENEMY of Linux.

    - Gurm
    The Internet - where men are men, women are men, and teenage girls are FBI agents!

    I'm the least you could do
    If only life were as easy as you
    I'm the least you could do, oh yeah
    If only life were as easy as you
    I would still get screwed

    Comment


    • #3
      Gurm, there's no doubting that a Linux customisation like RedHat isn't going to suit everyone's taste, but I find it a tad difficult to believe that NONE of it worked without there having been an error somewhere between the keyboard and the chair.
      Look, I know you think the world of me, that's understandable, you're only human, but it's not nice to call somebody "Vain"!

      Comment


      • #4
        In the past, I've gotten more unexplained sudden crashes in various flavours of linux than in ANY version of windows, including Win95. I still don't see a compelling reason to ever boot a desktop computer into linux. Servers, maybe (although W2K server is easily as stable as any version of linux or unix if you have good drivers), but never on a desktop.
        Lady, people aren't chocolates. Do you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard coated bastards with bastard filling. But I don't find them half as annoying as I find naive, bubble-headed optimists who walk around vomiting sunshine. -- Dr. Perry Cox

        Comment


        • #5
          ...ya know... at some point you have to ask yourself:

          "Am I some kind of masochist, or would I prefer to ride in relative comfort?"

          "Fighting for (and with) the underdog, do I get anything but bit?"

          "Do I really want to spend the rest of my life chasing the end of somebody else's rainbow?"
          How can you possibly take anything seriously?
          Who cares?

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes I can remember spending hours to get Mandrake to talk correctly to the windows network at home. The printer wouldn't work unless you had a fixed ip.
            Samba wouldn't play ball this was for two reasons. For some reason it messed up the password file and that Knonquer doesn't work properly network browsing. Of course linux didn't come up with any useful error messages until I installed xmsbrowser. This came saying your password file is bollocks do you want to reset your password. Did that and then I could mount my shares. Konquer was still bollocked of course.
            It was fun trouble shooting the network though with instructions that thought that you used to using Linux. Even better when every test I did said the network was working fine.
            Chief Lemon Buyer no more Linux sucks but not as much
            Weather nut and sad git.

            My Weather Page

            Comment


            • #7
              Gurm, you can check the alternative life styles to see my current experience with Linux

              Comment


              • #8
                If you ask me, Linux (and just about everyone/thing else, for that matter) has been beating MS for some time now by not JERKING YOU AROUND.

                Windows JERKS. J-E-R-K-S JERKS.

                A web browser which tries to be integrated into the OS, cannot be uninstalled by normal means if at all, and preloads half of itself into memory at bootup, whether you're going to use it or not. Why? To give naive users the false impression that it's faster.
                A media player which transmits information about what it's being used for over the Internet, and is rapidly having "Digital Rights Management" (sounds like a good thing if you don't know better, doesn't it?) incorporated into it. Go on, argue that this is for the purpose of improving the end-user experience.
                Product activation. Oh good. Now when I change/upgrade my hardware enough, my OS - the most fundamental useful (hah!) piece of software on my computer - will cease to function until I ask MS pretty please can I use it again.
                And what about the recent EULA changes (W2KSP3 anyone?) "You agree to let us effectively break into your computer and dick around with it, without asking or warning you beforehand."

                And with all the above, they come out and say they want to foster some kind of community spirit?!?!? With who? Not their users, the People Who Are Paying Them For This Crap, that's for sure.

                We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
                Blah blah blah nick blah blah confusion, blah blah blah blah frog.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Agent31,

                  You can think that if you want to, but ...

                  I did the default install. I just picked all the default settings, added in the packages I wanted (in their graphical installer), and let it rip.

                  1. It took a LONG time. This was not a tiny little machine, it's a Celery 466 with 256MB and a 15GB HDD on a BX board. ATI RageII PCI board, and a 10/100 NIC. All hardware auto-detected. But it took honestly about 4 hours to run the install. FOUR GO***MN HOURS! Windows XP, the most bloated installer Microsoft has written in years, takes 40 minutes on the same machine. Win2k takes 25. Win98 30. Linux - 4 HOURS.

                  2. I want to run PPPoE on my ADSL modem. It comes with Roaring Penguin, or so I hear. Damned if I can find it. Find and Locate turn up manual entries but not the actual program. It's not on the distro cd's (or not that I can find), so I download and compile it.

                  2a. There's a bug in RP-PPPoE. It won't set itself as the default route UNLESS it used to be the default route. So you have to manually rebuild the routing table at least once, before it will work at all. Hmm, and this is EASY, right? Works better than Windows? XP's built-in PPPoE routes correctly everytime, starting with the first time. Can any of you even tell me where the routing table IS, in Windows? Didn't think so.

                  3. I go to fire up the built-in webserver. No go. So I redownload Apache, compile it, install over the builtin. Ahh, now it works.

                  4. I go to run PHP, also supposedly built in. HAHAHAHAHA. It, like the PPPoE, is nowhere to be found. Download, compile, install. Now I need PERL...

                  5. Perl is installed. Badly. Doesn't run for crap, doesn't integrate with PHP, or Apache. Again, redownload, configure, compile, install. There, that works.

                  6. MySQL - at last, something where the builtin works. Oh, wait - the builtin doesn't work with PERL, PHP, or Apache. *sigh* Redownload, configure, compile, install.

                  7. CVS is built in. It works, as well as CVS can be expected to work... until I try to use it for anything. Another download, configure, compile, install cycle.

                  8. Red Hat Linux comes with an FTP server. WU-FTPD. But it, for whatever reason, isn't installed. Again, there are manual entries but no program. Apparently this happens a lot, since WU-FTPD's website is absolutely swamped. Haven't bothered installing this yet.

                  9. SAMBA worked. Flawlessly. Had to configure it of course (and there's no good utility for this, had to edit all the files by hand, add passwords and users by hand, etc.) but it DOES run, as advertised, out of box.

                  Now, imagine if I had wanted to get any WORK done with this system. I haven't even addressed X Windows yet. This is all basic system-level stuff. Total time for installation of a web server, php, perl, and cvs? 4 days. Total time for installation of a similar Win2k system? 2 hours, if you count the PHP/PERL install into IIS, maybe 3 if you also install WinApache. An extra hour for Win MySQL (or MS SQL) and you're all done. Up and running in an afternoon.

                  Linux is NOT GOOD.

                  Add to this the fact that everything I know about Solaris, Ultrix, HP/UX, and other Unixes is useless in Linux. Linux purposely obfuscates everything. Can ANYONE come up with a good reason to buck convention and NOT use the same config file names and command names that have been used in Unix for 30 friggin' years? No, of course not. Linus is just high on crack.

                  All in all, a less-than-satisfactory experience. I am daily tempted to scrap the whole thing and install a lite version of win2k on this box, despite the performance loss I'd experience.

                  Don't tell me it's between the keyboard and the chair, ok? I can set up a Sparcstation blindfolded. I can troubleshoot Ultrix as well as any Unix worker (although it's been a few years, I'd hardly call myself an Ultrix guru...), but Linux is just plain ol' crappy.

                  - Gurm
                  The Internet - where men are men, women are men, and teenage girls are FBI agents!

                  I'm the least you could do
                  If only life were as easy as you
                  I'm the least you could do, oh yeah
                  If only life were as easy as you
                  I would still get screwed

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm with this guy

                    With all my hatered toward M$, Linux is far from being "there".

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      and we haven't even touched the driver side of Linux yet! Even with common hardware there can be very weird and unexplained behaviour/bugs in the drivers in linux.

                      The general reply from the linux community regarding this is:
                      the manufacturer doesn't release the specs, thus the driver is solely based on R.E. work of the windows drivers.
                      Although sad but true, it doesn't solve any driver-related problems in linux, does it?

                      Unless linux has matured enough to be taked seriously by the mainstream commercial companies, it won't be a viable alternative to any MS product.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm with you guys. I don't agree with many MS politics, and windows has its bugs, but when it comes to user friendliness and time needed to get things running, LINUX sucks!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The solution to that one, dZeus, is to do a bit of research and pick hardware that is well-supported. Often in doing so you learn more and discover that that so-called top-end <whatever> which everyone uses because "it's the best" does certain things in stupid ways, or that something not so popular has extra features which are useful or save on CPU, or is just better thought-out.

                          It's sad that hardware support has to be this way, but the only people you can really blame are the hardware manufacturers.
                          Blah blah blah nick blah blah confusion, blah blah blah blah frog.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ribbit,

                            I agree that there are a lot of MS policies that suck. I'm not debating that. Their business practices are terrible. They invade your privacy. They have bloated software.

                            But sadly, their bloated software WORKS. Out of the box. Linux does not. Linux software does not.

                            I can't count the number of times I've downloaded a "compiled for linux - redhat 7.3" program, that won't run on red hat 7.3 at all. Screw that. So I gotta recompile it, yeah? All fine and well, but you can't tell me that it's easy to do, or that it works out-of-box. And until it does, nobody is gonna take it seriously as a desktop OS.

                            - Gurm
                            The Internet - where men are men, women are men, and teenage girls are FBI agents!

                            I'm the least you could do
                            If only life were as easy as you
                            I'm the least you could do, oh yeah
                            If only life were as easy as you
                            I would still get screwed

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              -----
                              They have bloated software.

                              But sadly, their bloated software WORKS. Out of the box. Linux does not. Linux software does not.
                              -----

                              That's exactly my opinion. Make a modular version of windows, where you can install only things you need and I will be happy forever. (maybe )

                              Comment

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