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Dogbert
28th September 2002, 10:21
Ok, been through several xNIX installations:

Gentoo: you MUST have network in order to finish the installation

BSD: Lack of configurability, can't find how to install grub on main HDD...

Slackware: GRUB didn't work + it somehow F$%d up my Win2k (beats me how)

Redhat: minor problems with X but it works.

Now for the big problems: took me over an hour downloading pptp client, burning it on a CD, installing it on Redhat and configuring the shit !
Why everything has to be done through the console and include editing friggin .conf files ?! :mad:

Now I want to install nVIDIA drivers (I hate VESA shit) and I read that I have to do it (what a surprise) through the console.

? - How do I close X and return to console ?

Then want to install the drivers for my souncard (Hercules Gametheater XP) - cirrus logic CS4630 driver.

? - How do I define something to run as a module and how do I run it afterwards ?

? - How the hell do I recompile my kernel and WHY the hell do I have to do it ?

Now I really miss BeOS.
It was so nice and easy is god damn straightforward unlike those damn xNIX. Damn, I even miss VAX/VMS :eek: !

Slougi
28th September 2002, 11:19
If Linux sucks so bad why don't you go back to windows. Linux is obviously not for you.

Dogbert
28th September 2002, 12:04
Cause saying I hate M$ while being their captive isn't doing much. As long as Be existed, all was cool but since they're gone, I have to try an alternative.

Since I've heard so much about how great and usable and stable it is and since I know a thing or two more than the stupid home user, I though it shouldn't be such a (god damn) big problem to use it.

So far it seems that you can't connect to the internet "out of the box" and you can't have non vesa video "out of the box".

No only that, but when you get all the drivers, you can't install them by yourself.

I have the packages for nvidia and for the CS4630 (actually a tar.gz file here). How the hell do I merge the nvidia stuff into my kernel and recompile it and how do I install the sound driver as a module ?

Why in Windoze and BeOS you just needed to install and reboot and here you need to dig so deep ?

Dogbert
28th September 2002, 12:06
Oh, and by the way, the fonts REALLY suck !

Seems like I'll be joining Gurm in the xNIX bashing soon cause unless someone will be able to "show me the light", xNIX is crap.

Slougi
28th September 2002, 12:34
Just download mandrake. Even small steps will get you to your destination... Just slower. None of the distros you tried are really for the linux newbie.

Wombat
28th September 2002, 12:48
Besides that, coming in with a shit attitude and saying "prove me wrong" makes almost nobody interested in helping you.

Dogbert
28th September 2002, 12:59
Cause it's behond help.

Why can a person get windows/BeOS/OS-X and operate it all by himself while it doesn't work for Linux ?

I can go now , buy a book and learn anything and everything there is to know about Linux. It'll be totally missing the point.
I was super angry at [M]atrox for releasing the G200 which was far from working "out of the box".

Now I'm frustrated with all those guys that like bashing M$ and telling us how great Linux is just to find out the the god damn thing doesn't work.
Why are you praising an operating system with terrible fonts, terrible user experience and that to do half of the stuff, you need to go to the console ?

Why do I haev to mount my CD-ROM ? Windows and BeOS know when one was inserted and it's automaticly mounted for me.
Why do I need to type something like this:

#pptp 10.0.0.138 --quirks=BEZEQ_ISRAEL debug user "user@iisrasrv" remotename "10.0.0.138 RELAY_PPP1" defaultroute mtu 1452 mru 1452 noauth

every time I want to connect to the internet ?

Why do I need to recompile my kernel in order for my video and sound to work ?

Slougi
28th September 2002, 15:40
FFS DOWNLOAD MANDRAKE AND STOP BITCHING

Edit: hrm sorry for that. Seriously, go and download mandrake, it's almost as easy to set up as windows.... Just do some research for yourself before you post posts like these, as Wombat said your attitude really isn't helping at all. Google is your friend.

Guru
28th September 2002, 15:54
Originally posted by Slougi
Just download mandrake. Even small steps will get you to your destination... Just slower. None of the distros you tried are really for the linux newbie.

Trid it and it sucked! Dual CPU support did not work etc. etc.

Dogbert
28th September 2002, 15:55
Slougi,

Just out of curiosity, wouldn't I need to recompile my kernel in order to use the latest nvidia drivers ?
What about the cs4620 sound chip ?

About google, actually I did some research and found that RedHat and Suse are supposed to be as friendly as Mandrake.

Last question, how do the fonts look on Mandrake ? Any different than RedHat / Suse etc ?

Slougi
28th September 2002, 17:07
Originally posted by Dogbert
Slougi,

Just out of curiosity, wouldn't I need to recompile my kernel in order to use the latest nvidia drivers ?
http://download.nvidia.com/XFree86_40/1.0-3123/README

What about the cs4620 sound chip ?
What manufacturer is this? Just did a quick search and didn't really find anything. You can always try ALSA (http://www.alsa-project.org/)

About google, actually I did some research and found that RedHat and Suse are supposed to be as friendly as Mandrake.
Mandrake is still easier.

Last question, how do the fonts look on Mandrake ? Any different than RedHat / Suse etc ?
http://www.linuxnewbie.org/nhf/Fonts

linuxnewbie in general is a good place to start.

Wombat
28th September 2002, 22:48
Why are you praising an operating system with terrible fonts, terrible user experience and that to do half of the stuff, you need to go to the console ? Fonts are largely an IP issue, and slougi has already touched on some things.

"user experience" is completely relative. Here I am on my XP box wishing it could do half the things of a sane OS.

There's rarely "need" to go to the console, although I much prefer it. The console is immensely powerful and efficient. A good shell is worth 1000 GUIs.


Why do I haev to mount my CD-ROM ? Windows and BeOS know when one was inserted and it's automaticly mounted for me. You can turn on auto-mounting quite easily. However, unlike Windows, Linux is generally set up with security as a priority. I'd rather have to open the windows myself than find myself hanging in the breeze until I can do something about it.


Why do I need to type something like this:

#pptp 10.0.0.138 --quirks=BEZEQ_ISRAEL debug user "user@iisrasrv" remotename "10.0.0.138 RELAY_PPP1" defaultroute mtu 1452 mru 1452 noauth

every time I want to connect to the internet ?
Because you didn't bother setting it up right. Automate it, leave it on, whatever you want.


Why do I need to recompile my kernel in order for my video and sound to work ? You likely don't. There should be modules for your kernel handy. If there isn't, you don't need to compile your own, just get the RPM and be done with it.

Dogbert
29th September 2002, 01:02
Wombat,


Why do I need to type something like this:

#pptp 10.0.0.138 --quirks=BEZEQ_ISRAEL debug user "user@iisrasrv" remotename "10.0.0.138 RELAY_PPP1" defaultroute mtu 1452 mru 1452 noauth

every time I want to connect to the internet ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Because you didn't bother setting it up right. Automate it, leave it on, whatever you want.


I did set it up right. This is how it's supposed to work, at least according to this page: ADSL connection with Linux (http://ca.huji.ac.il/services/internet/connect/adsl_linux.shtml)



Slougi,

I did read the nvidia read me file, I downloaded the pdf.
How do I exit X ? When I do the ctrl_alt_backspace it just restarts X. The read me file isn't too noob oriented.

About the CS4630, the instructions are here:
Cirrus Logic Linux drivers for 2.4.x kernel (http://www.cirrus.com/drivers/audiodrv/index.cfm?OSVersionID=17&CategoryName=Kernel%20versions%202.4.x).

The directories they're referring to don't exist in my redhat installation nor I know how to build kernel/module directory.


I'll check linuxnewbie this evening and hope for good.

Dogbert
29th September 2002, 01:14
BTW,

I agree that the console it a great powertool - for the one who knows how to use it. I know DOS, I know DCL (Digital Command Language) but alas I know almost no BASH. This means only one thing - trouble.

At least I managed learning a little about piping (|less and |grep) only I don't use grep too well yet.

One nice thing about Gentoo is nano, reminds me a lot of the edit in VMS. I should download it. Once it's there I'll feel a litle more familiar ith editing endless text files ;)


Maybe till I learn some bash I'll use
DCL Lite (http://www.accelr8.com/dcll.html) (hoping I'll manage the installation).

GehRehmee
29th September 2002, 21:11
note that individual applications (like nano) really have nothing to do with the distribution. Nano is available for any linux installation really.

leech
30th September 2002, 00:21
nano rocks. For the record, Mandrake 9.0 kicks ass. And no ugly fonts, all nicely Anti-aliased and everthing. GUI iconfigurations are all there for the noobie. Though I still prefer the good ol' command line. And they make it pretty easy to compile your own kernel, though because of all the modules that are already selected for compile in the source that comes with it, it takes forever.... Still they have a nice setup, I just wish that they had packaged the new Gnomeicu with it. That's the first thing I did, was compile the Gnome2 one (through CVS) and then I compiled the Gaim through CVS as well, for MSN compatibility. They're both working great now. Unfortunately I can't get the Parhelia driver to work with it, like I did in Debian (see my other post) But as far as Newbie Distros, Mandrake is the one to go for. I tried SuSE and it had too many problems, and I also have tried Redhat in the past, and it's pretty good, just not as good as Mandrake.

Also Xandros linux should be out tomorrow (it's Debian based, so no RPM hell.) It looks to be extremely friendly to use (unfortunately it also looks a tad too much like windows 98) We'll have to see how that one looks.

Leech

P.S. As a side note, if you buy Mandrake 9.0 when it comes out, it'll install the nVidia drivers for you (at least as far as I was reading a thread on mandrakeforum.com) Also it installs Alsa 9.0rc2 out of the box.

Six Of One
2nd October 2002, 13:50
Originally posted by Dogbert
When I do the ctrl_alt_backspace it just restarts X. The read me file isn't too noob oriented.


It has been said before, but being less annoying would help. So, if you are interested in getting help be friendly. I don't need you to run GNU/Linux.

Whatever, you can, but you don't need to "close" the X-Window-Server to get to a console. Ironically the "closing" of the X-Server needs a console ;-) Anyway, the simplest solution is probably to press CTRL+ALT+F1 or F2 or F3 up to 6. This will bring up one of the several virtual terminals on any Unix or GNU/Linux machine. There awaits you a login.

Another method would be to start a x-terminal. That's something like the MS-DOS Input Command under Windows. What kind of emulator you use differs but they are commonly known under the name X-Term or X-Terminal-Emulator.

This "knowledge" is found in about any basic tutorial or HOWTO. See here:
http://www.frankenlinux.com/guides/commands.html
http://jgo.local.net/LinuxGuide/linux-commands.html
http://www.linuxnewbie.org/nhf/Command_Reference

For all your other HOWTO needs:
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/howtos.html

Technoid
2nd October 2002, 15:21
Tommorow, I'm going to install Mandrake 9 :D

Tried 8.2 a time ago on my laptop and liked it...
It autodetected everything in my laptop, even the Winmodem :eek:

G400SG16mb
26th October 2002, 06:40
Linux is primarily made by semi-autistic programming-savant computer techy types... they memorise and understand every tiny little conceivable technical detail of the operating system, how to configure it and repaire anything that goes wrong by editing script files or typing in long command-line strings.

Basically, it's an operating system made by and for the people who make it and are in on their scene. If you, the average user, can not edit config files from VI and Emacs, type in console commands, recompile your kernel and install rpms with dependencies forced, they are seldomly going to comprehend why.

Linux is great for doing tasks like running webservers, BaSh scripts and specialised high-end tasks, but as a desktop for the typical user, it is hopeless.

WyWyWyWy
27th October 2002, 16:08
Why do you need to close X?
Just run xterm or Konsole or whatever terminal program you have installed. To restart it ctrl-alt-backspace.

For fonts, see www.tldp.org for a Font De-Uglification (FDU) HOWTO.

I personally prefer RedHat over everything else, speaking of Linux distro.

And I agree BeOS is really great, but so is FreeBSD.

leech
28th October 2002, 04:15
As far as fonts go, from what I've heard RedHat 8.0 is the way to go. Though the fonts look fine with my Debian Unstable setup. Gnome 2 rocks.

Leech

Six Of One
28th October 2002, 04:45
Originally posted by G400SG16mb
Linux is primarily made by semi-autistic programming-savant computer techy types... they memorise and understand every tiny little conceivable technical detail of the operating system, how to configure it and repaire anything that goes wrong by editing script files or typing in long command-line strings.

Basically, it's an operating system made by and for the people who make it and are in on their scene. If you, the average user, can not edit config files from VI and Emacs, type in console commands, recompile your kernel and install rpms with dependencies forced, they are seldomly going to comprehend why.

Linux is great for doing tasks like running webservers, BaSh scripts and specialised high-end tasks, but as a desktop for the typical user, it is hopeless.

Haha, that's funny. I mean the part about semi-autistic, haha. :rolleyes:

Maybe you will benefit from my outing: i am studying philosophy, political science and comparative religion, i am not at all what you call a "techy type". I am by all means an average user. I can't code anything, even if my life depends on it and i am still confused by most config or log files i encounter. Check my other posts, you will understand.

But i am using GNU/Linux, Debian (SID) flavor, because i desire to be independent from licensing politics. I switched from Windows 98 and it took me about two or three weeks to be able to use my computer again in a productive fashion. But now it works, as good as before and i gained some performance on the way to GNU/Linux. It's an alltogether different experience.

Whatever, i just realize the futility of my attempt... i don't need you to run GNU/Linux. Be free and use the OS of _your_ choice.

Regards

leech
28th October 2002, 16:05
My choice is also Debian (Sid) Where else can you just type in a simple command (apt-get install <package name>) and have it download and be installed for you in a matter of minutes/seconds (of course I also have a 1.5mbps DSL line...) utter convenience. I also can't code worth a shit (well, I've learned a bit of perl) But Linux has the BEST online community and are very helpful.

Leech

UncleJoe
2nd November 2002, 12:32
If mandrake doesn't feel right then SuSe might ... I just installed suse 8.1 a couple hours ago and have to say that i'm impressed. Everythig works and this looks good. (a lot better thar mdk 9.0 IMHO)