Which DVD burner? Need a little help guys...

[Hulk]

Okay, I've got too many CD's of video now, it's getting hard to keep them straight and the 700MB limit is too constraining.

I want to get a DVD burner and am torn between the Pioneer A04 and the HP200i. Which do you think has better compatibility with newer DVD players? How about compatibility when reading files on computer DVD drives? Not necessarily DVD movie MPEG-2, but just plain old data files I mean.

Any help would be appreciated.

[K6-III]

Don't forget that - discs are cheaper than + discs...

[wkulecz]

Don't buy either unless you and your audience are willing to buy a new DVD player to watch them. Compatability in existing players is not all its cracked up to be.

I've used both. DVD+R plays in one player I have that will be difficult to replace that DVD-R didn't so I went with it. Otherwise the differences are not worth argueing about.

I'd wait a bit for the Sony drive that does both + and - formats than you can go with whatever media is "on sale" at the time.

--wally.

[Jerry Jones]

I'd get the new Panasonic LF-D521 to ship next month.

Here's an article that talks about all of the new 'DVD Multi' drives to ship next month:

http://cssvc.pcworld.compuserve.com/computing/cis/article/0,aid,102354,00.asp

It burns to:

1. DVD-R
2. DVD-RW
3. DVD-RAM
4. CD-R
5. CD-RW

I've recommended that we buy one here at the City of Boise.

At home, I'm using two older Panasonic models... the LF-D311 and the LF-D321.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[John Wray]

I'm using the Panasonic drive too. If you can't wait for the next generation of universal drives, I'd seriously consider the LF-D321 DVD-R/RAM drive. -R gives good compatibility with current generation set-top players for DVD movies, and the -RAM format is best for data storage.

I don't see any advantage to either of the competing RW formats; they're inferior to -RAM for general data use, and the +/-R formats give better compatibility with DVD players. The only place where I can see +/-RW being appropriate is for a VCR replacement, to allow reuse of media (eg for timeshifting TV shows), but if you plan on keeping the movie DVDs you create, then +/-R is all you need.

John

[K6-III]

+rw is best for copying xbox games....whereas +r sucks...

...or so says a buddy of mine...

[Hulk]

Thanks for the help guys. From what I can tell from this site: http://www.dvdplusrw.org/ it appears as though the +R format has decent compatibility with many current players. Of course just playing and playing glitch free are two different things.

In the end don't you think one of these formats will win out? Which one do you think it will be?

Right now I'm primarily concerned with creating +R or -R discs for backing up and archiving data and projects. Like I said in my original post I have too many CD's around. I assume that either of these formats will burn data discs, correct?

Eventually the format war will get sorted out, as long as I can transfer my projects to the new format someday, I'm not too worried about current compatibility, as long as my computer drive reads the discs.

From what I've read, it seems as though the +R format is more compatible, but the +R discs are so much more expensive than the -R.

[Hulk]

Well I decided to get the Sony DRU-120A. Hopefully I didn't make a mistake, it should be here in a few days. I've read that the software that it comes with is pretty bad. I plan on using Easy CD creator to burn data discs, I checked their site and the unit is listed as being compatible. Don't ask me why but I like that program, I've been using it for a few years with no trouble and am too lazy to change.

As far as DVD authoring goes I do have the Ulead DVD Plug-In for MS Pro 6.5. I was fooling around with it last night and couldn't see any way to use more than once video file in a project. Is this true or can I use more than one video file?

[Patrick]

If I remember correctly, yes you are limited to using one video file only. That's one advantage of upgrading to Ulead DVD MovieFactory.

[Jerry Jones]

If one seeks compatibility, then either DVD+R or DVD-R are going to deliver results.

If one seeks data storage, then DVD-RAM is clearly the superior format.

DVD-RAM has several advantages over DVD+RW:

1. DVD-RAM does *not* require packet writing software. In other words, drag and drop support is native in the Windows environment. The same is *not* true for DVD+RW.

Drag and drop support will eventually be incorporated by Microsoft into Windows for DVD+RW, but *not* until the new so-called 'Longhorn' version of Windows ships:

http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/longhorn.asp

The site also says that LongHorn's ship date is uncertain:

"Microsoft originally said that we could expect Longhorn in late 2002 or early 2003, but the release was recently pushed back until late 2004. This suggests that an XP refresh, possibly called Windows XP Second Edition (XP2E) will ship first, in late 2003."

If this is true, it means native support for DVD+RW will *not* be incorporated by Microsoft until the end of NEXT YEAR... 2003.

2. DVD-RAM also has the advantage of higher capacity per disc.

For example, double-sided DVD-RAM discs can hold 9.4gb of video, photos or other data.

3. DVD-RAM also has the advantage of having been engineered to accomodate FAR more rewriting.

Specifically, the DVD-RAM disc is *designed* for 100,000 rewrites.

The DVD+RW disc is only designed for a fraction of that number (1,000 rewrites).

SOURCE: http://dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html

4. DVD-RAM discs are encased in cartridges and are therefore not subject to the rigors of physical handling as are bare discs. The cartridge also saves the expense of buying jewel cases.

DVD+RW discs require jewel cases and if they are handled a lot they can be physically scratched.

5. DVD-RAM drives can read the DVD-RAM discs recorded by new generation Hitachi and Panasonic DVD disc camcorders. DVD+RW drives cannot.

6. DVD-RAM is fully supported by the DVD Forum. DVD+RW is not.

This last point may or may not be important in the future.

An increasing number of manufacturers are seeking to make stand alone players that conform to the 'DVD Multi' specification.

This DVD Forum specification is here:

http://www.dvdforum.org/tech-dvdmulti.htm

The DVD Format/Logo Licensing Corporation, which is associated with the DVD Forum, also issues this warning about DVD+RW drives:

http://www.dvdfllc.co.jp/mess.htm#notice

This all explains why I opted for the Panasonic.

1. The drive offers compatibility through DVD-R

2. The drive offers *best* data storage through DVD-RAM

3. The drive also offers DVD Forum compliance

Good luck,

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[George Lin]

Most of your points are valid, but I would like to just like to note the following:

2. DVD-RAM also has the advantage of higher capacity per disc. For example, double-sided DVD-RAM discs can hold 9.4gb of video, photos or other data.

Optidisk has dual sided + and - disks.

4. DVD-RAM discs are encased in cartridges and are therefore not subject to the rigors of physical handling as are bare discs. The cartridge also saves the expense of buying jewel cases.
DVD+RW discs require jewel cases and if they are handled a lot they can be physically scratched.

Yes, but you'll need to take them out of the cases to attempt to read them in other drives if you use your data or intend to use your data on other machines.

6. DVD-RAM is fully supported by the DVD Forum. DVD+RW is not.

This really has no signifigance. It's the same as saying DVD+RW is supported by the DVD Allegiance, but DVD-RAM is not.

An increasing number of manufacturers are seeking to make stand alone players that conform to the 'DVD Multi' specification.

Most of the players on the market do not play -RAM. They do play -R and +R however.

If you want to speculate on the future, consider the most of the computer OEMs are in the +RW camp.

-RAM is the best format for data, but it's also the worst format for video. You need to decide what is more important. If you want the best of both worlds, wait for DVD-Multi.

And although -RAM is better for data, +R/+RW will have better penetration if it doesn't already because of the OEM PC manufacturer support.

DVD-R and DVD+R are about on par for compatibility. Cost of 2x -R discs are slightly less than 2.4x +R discs, but -R has the option of low cost 1x discs.

DVD+RW is the best rewritable format for video.

DVD-RAM is the best rewritable format for data.

It's a very hard call as to which one will come out ahead. They probably should just call it DVD*R and combine every format under the sun. I believe if they did that they would ultimately end up with 3 formats: DVD-R, DVD+RW, DVD-RAM.

Anyways, today, I'd say the DVD+R/+RW drive is the best way to go. When the multi's come out, I would expect that to be a better bet over Sony's +/- drive.


George

[Jerry Jones]

I would only point out that DVD-RAM - due to its earlier market introduction - already has a much larger install base.

In addition, Gateway is a major OEM and you will note that all Gateway DVD-equipped computers come with Panasonic's DVD-R/DVD-RAM drives.

An example is the Gateway 700XL:

http://www.gateway.com/work/prod/sb_700xlb_ProdDetail.shtml

You're correct where other major OEMs are concerned.

But I didn't want anybody to think that the + formats are the *only* ones being supported by major OEMs.

They aren't.

I stand corrected on the issue of double-sided discs as I was not aware that manufacturers had issued double-sided + and - discs, but I see you are correct:

http://www.firewire-1394.com/dvd-r9.4g1xds-5.htm

Not sure how I missed this news. Perhaps these are brand new?

Even so, I still very much disagree with the notion that the +R/+RW drives are the 'way to go.'

Not in my humble opinion.

I recently tested a disc created by a Philips DVCR 985 (DVD+ VCR) using an over-priced DVD+R disc sold to me by Circuit City.

That disc played just fine in my Panasonic LF-D311 drive.

But the same disc nearly destroyed a DVS DSR1600H DVD computer drive that we installed.

So - clearly - DVD+ claims to compatibility are suspect and your generalization that DVD+RW is better for video - in my opinion - is specious.

In fact, I would feel much more confident playing a bare DVD-RAM disc in a DVD-ROM drive said to be 'compatible' with DVD-RAM than I would be willing to gamble on DVD+ with drives that are only said to be compatible with DVD-R/DVD-RW.

Moreover, I would repeat my original point.

If one is seeking *compatibility* then DVD-R (or DVD+R) is best.

So if data sharing with computers outside of my work network is required, I would simply save my data to DVD-R.

My Panasonic LF-D311 can do that quite easily.

In addition, Toshiba DVD-ROM drives, for example, can also read bare DVD-RAM discs:

http://www.toshiba.com/taissdd/products/dvd.shtml

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

P.S.

It very well could be true that all of the current formats will be completely obsolete if the manufacturers muff current planning for future 'blue laser' disc devices.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[keithm]

I have a pioneer -r and the disks play fine in my stand alone dvd player, no problems, no glitches. In the U.K -r blanks are much cheaper the +r, about one third the price and that makes a big difference. As for quality of disks, the cheapest dvd-r blanks, about 60 uk pence did glitch badly but decent discs at 90pence each were fine. But: are you running windows 2000 or XP with an ntfs partition becaused if you're not you won't be able to produce the disc image to burn the DVD.

[Tapeworm]

I was leaning toward the Sony DRU-500A http://www.dvdcreation.com/cgi-bin/g...onydualdvd.htm , particularly with the option of 4X DVD burning and 28X CD burning, but now I'm going to see if I can hold out until there's more news on the Toshiba 6X.