Sony, Panasonic to Market Multi-Format DVD Drives

[Jerry Jones]

1. Panasonic:

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-940519.html

2. Sony:

http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/19159.html

The Sony drive doesn't support DVD-RAM, but does support DVD+R/+RW and DVD-R/DVD-RW.

The Panasonic drive doesn't support DVD+R/DVD+RW, but does support DVD-RAM recording.

In the meantime, Hitachi is rumored to be close to releasing another multi-format drive... one that supports both -RW and +RW.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[KRSESQ]

The "Leo Factor" strikes again!

Kevin

[paulw]

I hope that the Sony drive is a comercial success. Now if they would add DVD RAM as well that would clinch it..

[MPR]

No mention of the writing speeds yet.

[lecter]

DVD-RAM is dead paulw, it's the oldest standard, it is unsupported by most of the DVD-ROM's out there and the blanks cost way too much....it's good that things are finally stabilizing, DVD+RW will probably come out on top considering that it's being promoted by Sony+Philips-after releasing the CD, another succes seems to be in sight for them..

[IM_Riktar]

DVD-RAM is dead paulw

From a backup/archiving standpoint it is far from dead. What else can you use that allows you to simply drag and drop your files onto a icon in a 4.7 gig size? No software to install (Ok, the drivers don't count), seamless integration with Explorer, Powerdesk, or whatever shell program you choose. I am wondering how I got along without DVD-Ram before this.

[Sasq]

Now does any one have and estimated cost of that sony drive?

Dan

[RoGuE]

Originally posted by lecter
DVD-RAM is dead paulw, it's the oldest standard, it is unsupported by most of the DVD-ROM's out there and the blanks cost way too much....it's good that things are finally stabilizing, DVD+RW will probably come out on top considering that it's being promoted by Sony+Philips-after releasing the CD, another succes seems to be in sight for them..

As IM_Riktar said, DVD-RAM is far from dead. From an archiving, or contant rewriting standpoint it is the clear winner - which of the other DVD standards can rewrite up to 100,000 times? you'll be lucky to get 200 successful re-writes with +RW or DVD-RW.

Also, the +R / +RW standards are unlikely to become the mainstream at the expense of the official recordable DVD formats. DVD-R and DVD-RW will also always have cheaper media for a start.

Bear in mind that Sony are also promoting DVD-R and DVD-RW. Sony will support anything that makes them money as a way of tiding them over until Blu-Ray hits the streets, as they are the chief developers of it.

Sasq, I don't now how much the Sony drive will be, but the Panasonic will be around £380. So I'd imagine the Sony will be within £50-100 of this.

[Dr Mordrid]

Originally posted by IM_Riktar

From a backup/archiving standpoint it is far from dead. What else can you use that allows you to simply drag and drop your files onto a icon in a 4.7 gig size?

It's called "EASYWRITE", which is the banner for the new Mount Rainier standard. The EASYWRITE logo looks like an upright bedspring IMO, but it will identify compatable burners.

Mount Rainier is an initiative by Microsoft and several dozen other companies to add CD/DVD packet writing, background formatting, defect management and a bunch of other features to the Windows operating systems.

Their aim is to make burning both CD's and DVD's no more difficult than using a floppy disk.

Backups are going to be a WHOLE lot easier with these burners.

OS support will come for XP first and is due sometime this fall. Until patches for other OS's are available a packet writer will still be needed, but after that.....

Dr. Mordrid

[Jerry Jones]

A fair summary of DVD-RAM's virtues is located here:

http://www.verbatim.com/products/products.cfm?sub_id=39&sub_lnk_id=46

DVD-RAM blanks are quite inexpensive.

I buy them all the time at the local CompUSA for $5.99 or less, depending on any sales that happen to be running.

Rima.com is selling the 9.4gb double-sided DVD-RAM cartridges for $8.50.

http://www.rima.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=R&Category_Code=DR3

They're designed for heavy-duty, RELIABLE archiving of data and video with drag and drop simplicity.

For my studio, I would not trust any other type of DVD disc for storing my most precious Mini DV .avi files.

They can be purchased as double-sided discs, too, for twice as much storage capacity... up to 9.4gb!

They are protected by a cartridge and are designed to withstand years of physical handling.

They have defect sector management (DSM) built-in.

This means randomly written data is only placed in usable areas of the media and that data is accurately recovered during the read/write processes.

DVD-RAM has a huge EXISTING install base.

Newer stand alone DVD players by Panasonic play them.

Newer DVD camcorders by Panasonic and Hitachi record to them.

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/dvd_recorder/default.asp

Long live DVD-RAM!

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[William]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid


It's called "EASYWRITE", which is the banner for the new Mount Rainier standard. The EASYWRITE logo looks like an upright bedspring IMO, but it will identify compatable burners.

Mount Rainier is an initiative by Microsoft and several dozen other companies to add CD/DVD packet writing, background formatting, defect management and a bunch of other features to the Windows operating systems.

Their aim is to make burning both CD's and DVD's no more difficult than using a floppy disk.

Backups are going to be a WHOLE lot easier with these burners.

OS support will come for XP first and is due sometime this fall. Until patches for other OS's are available a packet writer will still be needed, but after that.....

Dr. Mordrid

Here's to dreaming. However, it's no good for -RW (yet), only +, which was developed with this in mind. Addressing the disc in 2K blocks is good, but that's a lot of blocks on a DVD, or Blu-Ray. Drive based defect management is definitely a good thing. Basically, it is transferring logic to the drive. Which is going to be very convenient for copy protection schemes...

However, getting to the crux of the problem with Mt. Rainer, drives are claiming support for it, when in fact they have broken implementations. These drives are shipping Right now. It's not an immediate problem, to be sure, but once people start expecting it to work, and find it broken, apathy is going to build up for it, making the fact that MS have support for it built into the OS worthless. It's a very useful standard, but their are some serious problems that still need resolving, before it can take over from the floppy disc (like being able to boot from one of these discs. I raised this point a year or two ago with some developers, who agreed I had a point ( ), but AFAIK my proposals never got incorporated )

[Jerry Jones]

DVD-RAM's advantages over DVD+RW:

1. FASTER RANDOM ACCESS TIMES

2. ABILITY TO FUNCTION LIKE A HARD DRIVE, ALLOWING ONE TO DRAG AND DROP FILES WITHOUT PACKET WRITING SOFTWARE

(I love the drag and drop simplicity of both my Panasonic LF-D311 and my LF-D321.)

3. Designed for 100,000 re-writes as opposed to DVD+RW that has only been designed for 1,000 re-writes.

4. DVD-RAM is capable of being used with or without cartridges.

(I prefer the cartridges because they eliminate the need for jewel cases - which saves expense - and they protect the bare disc from the abuses of physical handling.)

But it's possible to remove DVD-RAM discs from their cartridges.

I did it just the other day... placed the bare disc into my Panasonic LF-D321 and it worked just fine.

Yes - as Terry pointed out - Microsoft has broken from the DVD Forum to support the rogue DVD+RW format in the future...

...eventually Microsoft will incorporate defect management and no need for packet writing software...

...but who knows how long it'll take Microsoft?

William is also right.

I understand the DVD+R/DVD+RW drives that are shipping now do not correctly support defect management in connection with + format discs.

Given the HP snafu of shipping +RW drives without +R capability, which was a big mistake...

Given the 'late to market' broken promises of the + format corporations...

Given the very nature of their desire to pull away from the DVD Forum's efforts to establish standards...

...I'm comfortable to remain in the DVD Forum approved camp.

http://www.dvdforum.org

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[William]

Re how long it will take MS to get it right; traditional theory (IIRC) is that version 3 is the first that works properly. The first replacement for the floppy disc was UDF. Lead baloon. Version 2 is Mt. Rainer. Version 3... We're all trying to use Blu-Ray (or one of the other formats that will hit at about the same time.......) to replace the CD...

[wkulecz]

The problem with packet writing

is write compatability in multiple drives.

I've never seen the issue addressed by the vendors, but since the beginiing of CD-RW I've observed DirectCD and other "packet writing" software appears to work fine as long as you only have a single burner doing the writing. As soon as you start exchanging disks and writing in multiple burners disk corruption and data loss soon follows. I've even observed this in two pairs of the same make of burner (Ricoh 2X, Yamaha 8824).

Unless Mt Ranier address this issue specifically, I don't expect much but trouble from it!

I'm skeptical of DVD-RAM for this same reason and suspect it was the root of our problems with 640MB MO since we needed multiple writers.

Removable hard drive carriers in a 1394 enclosure meet all your drag and drop backup requirements and can be 120GB or more per icon, have all the drivers built into Win98se and above. This is what we are doing now after many years of other removable storage proving to be far less reliable than the hard drives they were backing up!

--wally.

[Brian Ellis]

One should not forget that Mount Rainier is an active volcano that, in the event of a major eruption, could reduce Redmond, WA, and all therein to ashes.

Maybe this statement may be taken metaphorically as well as literally