Droped frames for no reason?!?!

[Lmano]

I have the following system:

PII 400 OC @448 (112 FSB)
BX MoBo (Intel Chipset)33 UDMA IDE

320 Mb ram
1 7200 Maxtor Diamond Max 40 10Gig
1 7200 Maxtor Diamond Max Plus 40 15Gig(2Mb cache)

G400 Marvel
5.55 drivers
1.54 Vidtools


Win 98 DirectX 7a
Y2K Updates

Here is my problem, no matter what I use to capture (AVI-IO, VirtualDub, Premiere 5.1c, Ulead MSPro 6.0, PC-VCR, VidCap32, Etc..)

I drop frames at full 704X480 with 6.6:1 or 8.3:1 Quality setting.

According to VirtualDub my CPU Utilization never gets over the 30-39% range.

I have disabled Read Ahead optimization and write behind cache. I have also used drive space 3 to use no compression on the 15 Gig drive (dedicated to capture)

I end task on all open programs except Systray, Explorer and Pdesk. I have the systray clock turned off. I have my networkcard disabled and no drives shared on my lan.

I can capture for no more than 5-8 Min before I drop one frame or more. I have tried all types of frame rates (rounded to the Nearest Mil Sec. 29.412, 30.3030, 29.970, 29.976 etc).

My question is how can I stop dropping frames. Is there a problem with the timing because I have the system Overclocked?

I know this drive can handle the 3Mbs for the 6.6:1 704x480 capture setting. Why cant my system handle it? I can do nothing more without insight form oters.

Im at wits end here. I did a fresh install of 98 this morning to make absolutly shure there were no problems there.

I underdstand people get better resullts with less power where am I going wrong.!>?!?>!@>?


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-=*Lmano*=-

[Dr Mordrid]

The key factor in an overclock isn't the speed of the FSB but the speeds of the AGP and PCI clocks. If these are not the standard values it certainly can cause capture problems. But there are still one or two things you should check....

1. You used DriveSpace on the capure drive? Nonono....just bare naked format it as FAT32. No extras.

2. Have you restricted VCACHE? If not load the c:\windows\system.ini file into Notepad and search for the [VCACHE] entry. It should be empty. If so edit it to look like this given your memory size;

[VCACHE]
minfilecache=16384
maxfilecache=16384

save it out.

3. Use a fixed sized swapfile. I'd suggest about 256 megs or so.

Dr. Mordrid

[Lmano]

system.ini file updated to reflect new values.

I used drive space 3 only to change the settings of the drive not format it. after the drive is formated FAT32. For example run drive space 3 if your in 98 and then select a drive and then advanced. you will see the drives compression settings. I have changred the radio button to no compression (fastest).

My system dropes frames with or without this change.

[Lmano]

After testing the new System.ini changes I still drop 2 frames in 5 min with AVI-IO and 4 frames in 20 Min with VirtualDub.

What can I possibly do short of spending more money to get this problem to go away?

I think that since I only drop 4 frames in 20 Min with VirtualDub (internal system) that it must be a timing issue with the capture framerate. I would have lost a lot more if the system couldnt keep up.

Doc Mordrid does this sound right to you?

4 frames in 20 min is not bad at all I know but I must be able to fix this, one way or another.


Thanks for the help!

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-=*Lmano*=-

[Patrick]

You drop 4 frames in 20 minutes??!!! And you're worried?

Wanna trade systems?

[Lmano]

This is a real Issue for me. This isnt a joke to me. I really want to resolve this issue. I dont think the drive I use is the problem and the CPU should be OK. What I want to accomplish here is Drop Free capture with my system at the best quality available. I have tested further and I drop at least one frame in 3-5 Min of capture. I am an avid Overclocker and am attempting to find if the problem lies with overclocking the Systems Bus (and keeping the PCI & AGP multipliers as close to default as possable)

Now here is my next questions

Is it possable to capture with this gear and not drop frames at 704x480 Q 6.6:1.

To the best of my efforts I have not been able to do this at all.

I am at the end of the rope here.

If I cant do it then what gear can ?

Is this a matrox problem ?

All the literature I have read (No small amount!) gave me the impression that I could do this with the gear I have.

$500 later (Drive, Ram, Marvel) do I find out that I have been fooled into the wrong purchase?



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-=*Lmano*=-

[Technoid]

I always drop frames when i use Mjpeg but not in RGB,YUY2 etc etc
Try different formats.

[Pytkin]

I have similar problems .. Im everytime dropping frames .. 1 drops about 30 seconds .. maximaly 2-3 minutes without drops .. But If I capturing in YUV2, then no drops at all .. I thing MJPEG codec is unusable ..

[Nick Piercey]

Agreed!

I sometimes can capture for an hour (TV composite) without drops....

Sometimes I might drop 20 in 30 minutes.

On playback, sometimes I notice 'em, sometimes I don't.

My system is plenty fast enough, so long ago I came to the conclusion that it must be a mjpeg problem. Or possibly that pesky SBLive I've got in my system.

I can't remember the last time I dropped a frame using RGB or "Flying Dutchman's" YUV patch!

Regards,


Nick.

[Pytkin]

Yeah ... Great .. But why I was bought card with hardware MJPEG compressor , if this compressor is unusable ???

[Lmano]

In this case I must agree.

Why did I shell out $300 for a 3D game card with MJPEG hardware codec if my old $60 TV card with remote control and YUV support would have been just as good with HuffYUV?

I have heard that the zoran chip is broken but to find out here after I have one is a real drag.

Is there no solution to the Zoran bug?

Doc Mordrid what can you add here?

I understand that you use RGB to capture.

Why use a Marvel at all if the Zoran MJPEG codec Chip is broken?

I myself am a MultiMedia Graduate and have to say that I belive the fault is in the hardware and not my system or setup.


Is there some user out there that can get the MJPEG Zoran chip to work as advertised or is this just a big fiction Matrox uses to sell gear?




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-=*Lmano*=-

[Pytkin]

I thing AV Master, Pinnacle and other similar cards use same ZORAN chipset as Marvel/RRG .. Why tehy works good , without drops ??

[Lmano]

anyone capture at 704x480 with Zoran MJPG and not drop frames out there?

And if so what gear do you have & use?



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-=*Lmano*=-

[Dr Mordrid]

I've captured well over 100,000 frames without a drop many times. The gear:

Asus P3B-F 6 PCI mainboard
PIII/600
256 megs PC-100
Fasttrak66, 120g array
Win98SE
Marvel G400-TV
All the usual OS optimizations
AVI_IO capture

Don't let the specs fool you. Some of those 100k frame captures occured with more humble hardware.

Capturing with AVI_IO is a major advantage over other proggies, even VirtualDUB, for a couple of reasons.

The main one is that IF a frame drop does occur it inserts a copy of the previous frame in the dropped frame to both smooth out the playback and to keep the audio in synch.

So, while AVI_IO may report a dropped frame it has much less effect on the playback of the video than one in other programs.

Dr. Mordrid




[This message has been edited by Dr Mordrid (edited 23 June 2000).]

[Lmano]

Well that would help to reduce the problem but not to fix it. Im interested in this more Humble Hardware you speak of.