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Walk down MATROX memory lane..... G200 to Parhelia (has anything really changed?)

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  • Walk down MATROX memory lane..... G200 to Parhelia (has anything really changed?)

    Below are direct quotes about Matrox products over the years. I won't post the entire articles, but I will try to make a point about Matrox history. The parhelia seems to be the equivlent of the G200. Of course not in terms or performance, but in terms or relative performace and product cycle life it does. The card isn't meant for the hardcore gamer, but instead the professional who games occasionally. It has great feature set like many of Matrox's past cards, but all the new features it is introducing will be absorbed by the industry within the next 1-2 product cycles. My personal conclusion -- Matrox has never taken the lead with any of their ***3D generation*** cards. They always seem to be a step or 2 behind the competition when it comes to 3D performance, but overall, they still deliver a compelling product that many people enjoy. (someone must like their cards, because they are still in business). The release of the Parhelia was very different from their previous graphics chip endevors. They let out the specs of what seemed would be a smoking piece of hardware. They stressed features of the Parhelia that lend themselves to GAMING like 20GB/s memory bandwidth, 256bit GPU and DDR bus, T&L, pixel and vertex shaders, Hardware Displacement Mapping, Depth-Adaptive Tessellation, 16x AA and last but not least, Triple Head & Surround Gaming. They really burned themselves by promising so much and delivering so litle. Matrox is stuck in a time warp of putting out featured filled mediocre performing cards. I really wanted one of these cards, but i guess I should have taken the hype with a grain of salt, and half a bottle of tequila. Either way, take a read tell me if you think has really changed.


    Anandtech G200 review
    August 16th, 1998
    (conclusion page - last page)

    ---------------------------------------------------

    As a Voodoo2-killer, the Mystique G200 is a failure, however since it was never intended to be a Voodoo2-killer then the success of the G200 is much more than originally expected. The hard core gamer will probably want to wait for a Savage3D or a Riva TNT, however for an average gamer without an immense budget the G200 takes the place of the i740 as the ideal 2D/3D combo chipset.............

    Matrox tried their hand at the 2D/3D combo market once again and this time emerged victorious. Matrox emerged not with the title of world's fastest performer, not with the widely sought Voodoo2-killer name displayed on their belt, but with the feeling of success draped across their faces in the form of a smile knowing that there will be quite a few gamers out there who, for the first time, are proud to be powered by Matrox.




    Anandtech Matrox Millennium G400 & G400MAX reveiw
    May 20th, 1999
    (Final Thoughts - last page)

    ---------------------------------------------------
    The G400 is finally here, and it is definitely not a Voodoo3 or TNT2 killer. The hard core gamer that simply wants performance will probably want to stay away from the G400, however if you don't mind not having the absolute best in 3D performance then the G400 quickly becomes a viable option............

    Matrox definitely has a winner on their hands, the G400 is much more than everything the G200 should have been, and it's no surprise that such a combination of features, performance, and outstanding image quality will be making its way into the hands of quite a few anxious users that have renewed faith in Matrox. Myself included Let's just hope that Matrox can iron out the last few bugs with their ICD, and work on improving performance. Although the G400 will probably never reach TNT2 Ultra levels of performance, the closer Matrox gets, the better. The cards are ready and out in the open, you make the decision.




    Anadtech Matrox G450 Review
    September 5th, 2000
    (Final Words - Last page)

    ---------------------------------------------------
    The G450 is by no means a savior for Matrox, instead it's simply protecting a territory that they have worked so very hard to acquire.

    It is very simple to compare the G450 to NVIDIA's GeForce2 MX and say that the latter is the clear winner, however the two chips are most definitely geared towards different audiences.........

    For 3D performance, that includes gaming performance as well as high end 3D rendering, CAD, etc... the GeForce2 MX is a clearly superior solution to the Matrox G450............

    As far as functionality goes, Matrox's DualHead is superior to what we have seen thus far from NVIDIA with their TwinView. NVIDIA will most likely continue to improve TwinView so that one day it may be just as feature-filled as what Matrox is currently offering, but then we raise a question of when.

    So if you want the performance today, you go to NVIDIA, and if you want the features offered by DualHead, the Millennium G450 is the perfect solution for those that felt the Millennium G400 was a bit too expensive just for multi-monitor support.




    Tweakers Australia Matrox G550 Review
    March 9th, 2002
    (conclusion - Last page)

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    As already stated, if you looking for a card to play your favorite 3D shoot-em-ups on, then stay away from the G550. If superior 2D graphic performance is the more favorable requirement, then I would strongly suggest the Matrox G550 Dual-DVI. Whilst only being able to test the analog CRT performance, I can safely conclude that the G550 offers the absolute best 2D picture quality I have ever seen. 3D quality was also very impressive, but as expected the frame-rate severely limited. Being the type to play a game once in a while, I would still have to say that 95% of my time working with computers productively is spend staring at plain old 2D. While not everybody fits into this category, there is a still a demanding market that does. Outstanding 2D performance, impressive features and an awesome amount of functionality makes the G550 worth a really close look, especially if you're like me! I rate the Matrox G550 Dual-DVI 9 out of 10, taking into account what the card is primarily designed for - which is definitely not 3D performance!




    Anandtech Matrox Parhelia Review
    June 25th, 2002
    (Final Words - last page)

    --------------------------------------------------
    The Matrox Parhelia is Matrox's best effort in the 3D graphics market to date. It offers tangible features, the highest performance Matrox has ever been able to provide and a good set of drivers just out of the box. The problem being that Matrox isn't competing with the ATI and NVIDIA that they once were, these two companies are utter giants today (especially NVIDIA). Their drivers are much more optimized and they've had much more experience with tuning their hardware and software for performance so that they do produce the highest frame rates possible......

    In order for Parhelia to be an attractive performer at this point you have to be a heavy user of one of the following features:

    Games that make extensive use of quad-texturing
    Games with lots of complex pixel/vertex shader programs
    Fragment Anti-Aliasing
    Surround Gaming

    The first two bullets on the list are basically out of your control; games will take advantage of the quad-texturing capabilities of Parhelia going forward, and some already do today (UT2003). There are almost no games on the market currently that put the pixel/vertex shader units to any serious use and thus you won't see much benefit from Parhelia there, at least for the immediate future.....

    In the end it comes down to what sort of a value Parhelia brings to the table. At its ESP of $399, Parhelia doesn't deliver performance that's equivalent to what a $399 card should provide. With FAA enabled the situation turns out to be much better, but as we told Matrox a few months back, if they want to make a comeback they have to top all charts. If you look at the performance under Unreal Tournament 2003, the Parhelia is entirely too slow compared to the GeForce4; and we're not even taking into account the fact that in the very near future ATI's R300 will be introduced with much higher performance under Unreal Tournament 2003. As a pure gamer's card, the Parhelia gets mixed results.

    Where the Parhelia can truly shine is in the relatively small niche that is interested in features like Surround Gaming, triple-head outputs, and those users that do play with AA constantly enabled. The analog image quality output of the Parhelia is also excellent, so those professional users that are looking for a solution with crisp display capabilities will find comfort in Parhelia. But in the end we're not talking about a large portion of the market that will be drawn to Parhelia, just the small percent that Matrox indicated they were going after in the first place.

    We'd honestly like to see a more competitive Parhelia part, but it seems as if that will take another couple of product cycles at minimum. The good news is that Matrox is committed to supporting Parhelia and they do have a roadmap to follow-up the chip with refreshes and new architectures. Will we see a refreshed Parhelia this year? We wouldn't throw out the possibility, but the important thing is that there is something in the works. With Parhelia out the door the folks at Matrox can breathe a small sigh of relief now that their 2-year old is finally walking, but they can't get too complacent as it's the Parhelia refresh that will determine whether Matrox has what it takes to remain a player in this competitive business.

  • #2
    Definitely a pattern there in those past reviews on Matrox G-cards when comparing PC gaming performance to their rival competitors in the past and present. But I still would love to have a Parhelia for my office though hehee.
    Hardcore PC gamer with a sweet tooth for EXTREME eye candy!

    Comment


    • #3
      The G200 was targeted as a low end card and was priced as such. The G400 was very competitive with the cards available in it's time. It was also the fastest card when running at higher resolutions. The Parhelia has a ton of features. A lot more then the previous Matrox cards and a lot more then any other gfx card ever released in the history of PC gaming.

      People seem to expect the Parhelia to last them 2 years and still be competitive with all the cards that will be release up to then. I have never seen that kind of expectaion put on a ATI or Nvidia card. Why is that? It is because their cards don't have many lasting features. Most of the time, their only feature is their speed. Which gets surpased 6 or less months down the road.

      I bought a Kyro2 about a year ago. To replace my G400. But it now sits on the shelf. That is because it lacks the features that I like and it was only a bit faster.
      I should have bought an ATI.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by piaxVirus
        [People seem to expect the Parhelia to last them 2 years and still be competitive with all the cards that will be release up to then. I have never seen that kind of expectaion put on a ATI or Nvidia card. [/B]
        Wrong, I don't expect a card to last that long, that wouldn't be realistic. I do however expect a new card to at least be competitive against the current competition. The ATI Radeon 8500 has been around since sept of last year but the Parhelia has a hard time topping that in 3D performance.

        Let me try to restate the point I'm making. I don't care what anyone says, Matrox targeted this card at gamers, because they know they make up a huge sales chunk of video cards. In ever preview of the card ( i read over 6 of them), EVERYONE zeroed in on the game abilities of the card. EVERYONE listed off the game features of the card. EVERYONE compared it to current 3D cards. Even matrox themselves seemed only able to show demos of the card running games on 3 monitors. Matrox really wanted in on the 3D performance crown. But as history has shown, they either rushed the product out the door, or just didn't produce a good performing gaming card. I'm trying to make my points from a gamers perspective. As a gamer, I'm dissapointed because I really wanted there to be another major player in the 3D arena. BTW, have you seen the Xabre benchmarks in the same games as the Parhelia? They are pretty close in **speed**. Granted the Matrox does look better, but it doesn't look that good to warranty $399 purchase price. Like a said, maybe matrox should have simply aimed this card at the audience that uses G400, G450, and G550 cards. This card should not have been aimed at gamers in it's current state. I really hope they have a kickazz .13 micron version running at 350MHz core and insane memory speeds. I want Matrox to be a player in this game, but once again, like their other products, they are a couple steps behind the competition.

        Comment


        • #5
          No doubt Matrox is on some level targeting the gaming scene...
          But just because review sites centered on 3D gaming and Performance review it in a manner that their audience would like it reviewed doesn't make that Matrox's main focus...

          The reviews out now are from sites that do 3D testing, they test video cards with 3D gaming in mind...

          Matrox not only targets the Gaming world with this card, but also the Pro Illistrator and Workstation worlds, really any area where a large screen is beneficial, where image Quality is demanded, and where acurate full featured 3D rendering is required...

          so the card does have many facets, it's not a speed bumb from a previous gen. or previous generation of a competitors card...

          You may only look at Video cards as 3D game render'ers, which is fine, but don't think you are the center of the world, because you are sadly mistaken...


          Craig
          1.3 Taulatin @1600 - Watercooled, DangerDen waterblock, Enhiem 1046 pump, 8x6x2 HeaterCore Radiator - Asus TUSL2C - 256 MB Corsair PC150 - G400 DH 32b SGR - IBM 20Gb 75GXP HDD - InWin A500

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          • #6
            Another person that is looking at this thread wrong. I understand what you are saying, but I'm only tyring to make one point here.

            This card should not have been targeted so strongly as the "next" gaming solution in it's **current state**. I know the card is also targeted at many other audiences, but the gamers market is still were the cash is. Again, I don't think matrox should have pushed such an unpolished product into the gaming world like they did. Again, I read about 6 previews of the card before it came out, and it is easy to tell what audience matrox really wanted using this card. Every review looked EXACTLY the same because they where using MATROX SUPPLIED info, slides, pictures and details. All of the info was DIRECTED SQUARELY AT GAMING. Since matrox wanted to put this card in gamers hands so bad, what is wrong with looking at it from that point of view. Nothing. Since they wanted it in a gamers hand, I'm just giving them a gamers opinion.

            I know gaming isn't the center of the world, but you must admit that it is THE DRIVING force behind GPU/video card design. Why do you think they work so close with game developers?

            Comment


            • #7
              The Parhelia did beat the competition, when all of the settings are maxed. I can't see why anyone would want to play games any other way. Unless you must have 90FPS.

              The gamer card market is not the cash cow you think it is. There is very high R&D costs, low sales, and very low margins. A large chunk of the cost of the Parhelia is to pay for the R&D costs to develop the extra features. If you don't require any of the extra features. Then you should go for an ATI or Nvidia card.

              I am glad Matrox did not decide to use the .13 micron process, when they initially designed the Parhelia core. The switch to .13 micron has been very problematic for everyone. It would have delayed the chip until after christmas. TSMC stated that they would have had their .13 micron process fully working a year ago. Still they haven't worked all of the bugs out. I think this will be a problem for Nvidia as far as yelds and stablility. I don't expect high volumes for the NV30 cards until late Q1 2003. Since the .15 micron process has had time to mature. Matrox is able to offer high volumes close to the Parhelia's release. This is why the R300 and P10 are also using the .15 micron process.

              UMC now has the .13 micron process running smooth. For Matrox to redesign the core for the .13 micron process would take around 3-5 months. If you also want them to add the features they couldn't fit on the original chip. That will take them at least a year. So the only faster card that could possibly come out is a higher clocked MAX version with a beefy HSF that fits within the AGP spec's size limitations.
              I should have bought an ATI.

              Comment


              • #8
                I also feel Matrox did release this card too quick. I also think 3Dlabs released their P10 way too quick. It appears 3Dlabs saw the Parhelia card as a direct threat. More so then the Quatro 4.

                Matrox never directly positions their products toward only the gaming market. Not giving HardOCP a card is a sign of that. Suround Gaming is the only thing that was. They already had been developing 2 and 4 display cards. They just saw the potential for three displays when used for gaming and went with it. TH was probably the cheapest and easiest feature they added.

                If they really wanted to take the performance crown and flaunt it for all it's worth. They would have found a way to keep the original clock speeds that the alpha was running at and optimise the drivers. Instead they opted to release a stable card with the most complete and stable drivers they could.
                I should have bought an ATI.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just finished reading the Sharkyextreme review of the Parhelia. I believe it is teh best one I've read so far. It touches on the postives and negatives of teh Parhelia card, performance and market direction. Great read

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think they should have used a bigger heat sink. They did not need that stupid one on the Alpha boards but just needed to get rid of the 2nd PCI slot area (which no one really uses ) and put in a really big heat sink with a couple of fans down the back with some ducts (like that Sun card and like the Wildcats) then they could clock it higher.

                    I know that most of the nVidia and ATi fan boys would have liked it even more then just becuase it "looked" big and fast and cool.

                    Mark

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      All other 3D Matrox cards have had a good price/performance. But when it comes to Parhelia It's just too damn expensive. If we had a Parhelia at 275-300 Mhz + matured driver I think it would be on par with GF Ti4600 in performance. But in relation to the specifications from Matrox the chip should be able to perform even better. Someting is wrong here...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Slipknot> Yes, I see what you mean...
                        /me is getting flashbacks to when he bought the Mill G200...

                        Too bad there isn't something like the V2 now...
                        As 2 V2's in sli and the G200 was a very nice match up back in the day

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think that the chip core has been deliberately underclocked so that they could use a small enough fan to stay within the APG card spec. If I'm right about this then it should be pretty easy to overclock to 250 MHz or greater. I'd go so far as to say that with a "fanwich" it might be able to touch 275 and above
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                          • #14
                            I always thought double standards were annoyibng but this really is interesting... Let me see, the 8500 was as far as I remember hyped as a Geforce 3 killer and a pure gamer card. Take a look at this early review from Anandtech:


                            Yes I know they state it is a preview, but they do have the card and benchmarks...and this from the same card where one of the supposedly best features smoothvision didn't even work at launch ! Come on there might be some quirks in FAA but it sure as hell isn't disabled in the drivers....

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                            • #15
                              What are you all complaining about? is the ti4600 that much faster? no, in some banchmarks the Parhelia even scores better, and they're both priced the same, btw, has anybody thought about overclocking the board?
                              Main Machine: Intel Q6600@3.33, Abit IP-35 E, 4 x Geil 2048MB PC2-6400-CL4, Asus Geforce 8800GTS 512MB@700/2100, 150GB WD Raptor, Highpoint RR2640, 3x Seagate LP 1.5TB (RAID5), NEC-3500 DVD+/-R(W), Antec SLK3700BQE case, BeQuiet! DarkPower Pro 530W

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