Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Carmack on Parhelia

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Carmack on Parhelia



    Don't shoot the messanger, because you probably will _not_ like what JC had to say...

    I must agree with him...This chip is screaming "die shrink and 9 months of driver optimizations." I think Matrox will really be back in the fold in 6-9 months.

    Here goes....

    Name: John Carmack
    Email:
    Description: Programmer
    Project:
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    June 25, 2002
    -------------
    The Matrox Parhelia Report:

    The executive summary is that the Parhelia will run Doom, but it is not
    performance competitive with Nvidia or ATI.

    Driver issue remain, so it is not perfect yet, but I am confident that Matrox
    will resolve them.

    The performance was really disappointing for the first 256 bit DDR card. I
    tried to set up a "poster child" case that would stress the memory subsystem
    above and beyond any driver or triangle level inefficiencies, but I was
    unable to get it to ever approach the performance of a GF4.

    The basic hardware support is good, with fragment flexibility better than GF4
    (but not as good as ATI 8500), but it just doesn't keep up in raw performance.
    With a die shrink, this chip could probably be a contender, but there are
    probably going to be other chips out by then that will completely eclipse
    this generation of products.

    None of the special features will be really useful for Doom:

    The 10 bit color framebuffer is nice, but Doom needs more than 2 bits of
    destination alpha when a card only has four texture units, so we can't use it.

    Anti aliasing features are nice, but it isn't all that fast in minimum feature
    mode, so nobody is going to be turning on AA. The same goes for "surround
    gaming". While the framerate wouldn't be 1/3 the base, it would still
    probably be cut in half.

    Displacement mapping. Sigh. I am disappointed that the industry is still
    pursuing any quad based approaches. Haven't we learned from the stellar
    success of 3DO, Saturn, and NV1 that quads really suck? In any case, we can't
    use any geometry amplification scheme (including ATI's truform) in conjunction
    with stencil shadow volumes.

  • #2
    finally! i was waiting for his opinion. sounds not good at all.
    if parhelia is slower on past games, slower on current games and also slower on future games (UT2003, D3) what else is left?
    also that he quite frankly bashes DM is not a very good sign either.

    but there are
    probably going to be other chips out by then that will completely eclipse
    this generation of products.
    since carmack already has a R300 board (be it alpha or beta) in his hands i think we can take this as a hint, and not a very good one for matrox friends
    Last edited by thop; 25 June 2002, 15:32.
    no matrox, no matroxusers.

    Comment


    • #3
      *sniff*
      I'll buy a new card Soon™, very Soon™!
      + =

      Comment


      • #4
        The 10 bit color framebuffer is nice, but Doom needs more than 2 bits of destination alpha when a card only has four texture units, so we can't use it.

        Ummm...are there any cards out there that have more than 4 texture units??

        amish
        Despite my nickname causing confusion, I have no religious affiliations.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hello G550
          Why is it called tourist season, if we can't shoot at them?

          Comment


          • #6
            bugger - oh well I have just finished university and dont have a job yet so I wont be buying a new card till NV30 or R300 comes out (prob DOOM3 as well). I will make my choices them - features are good but if some are useless well..... time will tell
            hmmmmm

            Comment


            • #7
              Hello G550
              Hehe ohhh shut up
              Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe (nForce2)>>AMD 2500+@ 3200+ (Barton)>>1.5 GB Ram (PC400)>>Leadtek GF 6800 12x6(385/850)>>Western Digital 120GB (WD1200JB) & Fujitsu 20Gb(MPF3204AT)>>Cambridge Audio azur 540A>>Razer Viper(Mouse)>>V7 V7S20PD 20.1 TFT Monitor>>NEC 3510A>>Lite-ON (40x10)>>Cherry CyMotion>>CanoScan N670U>>Epson Stylus Color 760>>Windows XP (SP2)


              Comment


              • #8
                *sigh*
                Now I am actually worried. Before I read what John Carmack said there, I didn't even thought about canceling my order but now... should I just wait a few months till the R300 comes? I am not sure, I just hope that Matrox can still do some tricks with the driver, I really hope so!
                Specs:
                MSI 745 Ultra :: AMD Athlon XP 2000+ :: 1024 MB PC-266 DDR-RAM :: HIS Radeon 9700 (Catalyst 3.1) :: Creative Soundblaster Live! 1024 :: Pioneer DVD-106S :: Western Digital WD800BB :: IBM IC35L040AVVN07

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sigh!!!!
                  URK!
                  Is everyone a closet NVIDIOT!?!?!
                  If there's artificial intelligence, there's bound to be some artificial stupidity.

                  Jeremy Clarkson "806 brake horsepower..and that on that limp wrist faerie liquid the Americans call petrol, if you run it on the more explosive jungle juice we have in Europe you'd be getting 850 brake horsepower..."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Technoid
                    Sigh!!!!
                    URK!
                    Is everyone a closet NVIDIOT!?!?!
                    He looks more like a closet ATI-diot.

                    amish
                    Despite my nickname causing confusion, I have no religious affiliations.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Technoid
                      Sigh!!!!
                      URK!
                      Is everyone a closet NVIDIOT!?!?!
                      Perhaps there are some, but I don't believe JC to be one of them.
                      I'll buy a new card Soon™, very Soon™!
                      + =

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Electric Amish


                        He looks more like a closet ATI-diot.

                        amish
                        Well, before I spend 550€ (I live in germany, the card cost that much here, would be over 530 US-$) for a card, I usually make sure that it will be the best for me. I don't only want to play the current games with all the eye-candy (especially FAA) on, I also would like to play future titles like Doom III or UT 2003 with these settings. At the moment the Matrox card is the perfect card for me:
                        Great 2d quality, very good (and not less, it is as good as a Radeon 8500 at least, and this is performing great!) 3d speed and great Anti-Aliasing. Maybe I just thought loud in my post above, but I think you guys should understand that you are going to think about anything before spending 530$ on something.
                        Specs:
                        MSI 745 Ultra :: AMD Athlon XP 2000+ :: 1024 MB PC-266 DDR-RAM :: HIS Radeon 9700 (Catalyst 3.1) :: Creative Soundblaster Live! 1024 :: Pioneer DVD-106S :: Western Digital WD800BB :: IBM IC35L040AVVN07

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I would rather think about everything before spending 530$ on something.

                          /Jake
                          Who is General Failiure and why is he reading my drive?
                          ----------------------
                          Powercolor Radeon 9700np, Asus A7N8X mobo bios ver. 1007UBER, AthlonXP2800+@3200+ (200 Mhz fsb, 2.2 Ghz) on TT Silent Storm, 2*256Mb Kingston HyperX PC3500 DDR-RAM, 19" Samsung 959NF monitor, Pioneer A04 DVD-RW, Two WD800 80 GB HDD's, IBM Deskstar 40 GB

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            please do not refer to diehard ATI fans as ATI-diots........................they prefer the term fanATIcs (hehe jk)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Doom III release seems like a good graphics card upgrade date to me. I've always been a fan of these id games. Doom III looks really attractive because of its immersion and I prefer the single player games since I suck which limits my fun on-line. What is the release date of this game? Matrox better have their act together by then or I may just land up with an ATI card next time.
                              <TABLE BGCOLOR=Red><TR><TD><Font-weight="+1"><font COLOR=Black>The world just changed, Sep. 11, 2001</font></Font-weight></TR></TD></TABLE>

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X