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woel
7th March 2002, 11:03
Hi everyone!

If you can solve my interesting problem I'll be really greatful. Every morning when I turn on my computer or whenever I turn on my computer after it has been off for a while it crashes and reboots a while after it has started. I usually just surf the web in the morning and don't stress the system much. After one reboot the system is very stable. What the **** is the problem? PSU?
One more thing... I tested with my old g400max and it still crashed/rebooted. So I guess it isn't the graphics card...

/Leo

This is my system spec:
AMD athlon xp1700
abit kr7a
crucial 256MB
ati radeon 8500
3com 905c
sblive
ibm 120gxp 80GB
aopen 300W psu

The PIT
7th March 2002, 11:10
I'd say it's your Abit. I won't go near another Abit Via solution after my Abit KT7 133 raid. I threw it in the bin as theres no way I could sell it onto someone.
If the board is new get it rma and get it replaced.

ALBPM
7th March 2002, 11:13
Ah, it's just one more of those VIA Features.

Paul

Greebe
7th March 2002, 11:19
While it's possible for the problem to be within the PS... more directly it sounds like a cap issue... lol yeh yeh yeh I know, like blaming caps for everything :p... anywho leaking caps show there worst when cold... they allow DC to pass through them and thus put a massive current load on the PS til warmed up a bit.This could be a cap on the MB or in the PS... swap out the PS right away with an AMD XP approved supply and see if that resolves the problem... if it doesn't, swap MB's... this can only lead to more headaches down the road.

The PIT
7th March 2002, 11:20
It could also be a dry joint on the motherboard and once it's managed to warm up a bit the contact is constant. You could try reseating everything just in case a card or cpu or memory isn't quiet down.
Abit managed to send a board out to a reviewer with some components not soldered in.

woel
7th March 2002, 11:42
Well maybe it's time to get that nice 350W enermax. :-) It couldn't hurt I guess....

Greebe
7th March 2002, 12:01
I'll add this to enlighten you...

My system specs...

MSI MS-6167mb, 512 megs PC133mem (mixed Crucial and Infineon cas2), Athlon 500@850 pulling 85.4 watts peak!!!/watercooled, 1 IBM 34GXP 20 gig and 1 IBM 60gig 60GXP HD's, Imation 4x4x20 CDRW converted to a Ricoh 6x4x20 CDRW, Toshiba 12x DVD SD-M1402 region freed, SBLive, realtek nic, Floppy, Hauppauge WinTV FM Stereo PCI, and currently a G400Max.

All housed in an InWin Q500 case with a 300w Powerman supply... bottom line, you have alot less power demands than I, with the same power rating on the supply.

woel
8th March 2002, 01:38
Hi!

Well at first I posted a thread like this in the radeon 8500 technical support at rage3d because at first I thought it was the graphics card since I got one message from windows that it might be that. Two of the replies I got were from two persons with the same problem. After started cool a crash and after reboot stable. I got the hint to look at the voltages when I started the computer and I did, the +12V were sometimes as low as 11.1V but mostly around 11.5V. I don't know much about PSUs but I don't like that something that should run at 12V run 0.5V lower...

/Leo

KeiFront
8th March 2002, 03:26
11.5 V is just acceptable but 11.1V is just to low, try another AMD approved PSU.

woel
8th March 2002, 10:01
Well one idea to minimize the possibilities is to lend a psu from a friend and try. Too bad it takes time for the computer to cool down. =)

Greebe
8th March 2002, 10:15
ATX specs call for a maximum tolerance of 5%... so on the 12vdc line it should read between +12.6 and +11.4 vdc

xortam
8th March 2002, 10:25
Mike ... didn't you state before that you can't rely on the voltage readings from the BIOS?

rugger
9th March 2002, 04:22
xortam is right

you might as well look at the motherboard and guess what voltages are going through it, cause it won't be any worse than what the bios reports.

Use a multimeter to test the power levels. (while running with all stuff connected.)

woel
27th March 2002, 09:15
Hi again!

Well since I am a little bit of a nerd... I got a new Enermax 353W PSU. =)

The bad thing is that it did not help with my cold boot problem. =(

Do you have any suggestions of what I can do to solve my problem?

Please help me!!!

/Leo

Dr Mordrid
27th March 2002, 09:46
Wasn't there a post long ago that the ABIT boards had a problem with poor voltage regulation, especially to the AGP port, and that it caused problems with a lot of cards?

Maybe they are following Creatives problem resolution strategy: ignore it :D

Dr. Mordrid

Guru
27th March 2002, 09:48
I'm 99.99999% sure that it's a cap on the mobo! I'f I were you I would throw out that "mobo" and get a decent one from MSI for Gigabyte for XXXXX!

EDIT: Removed word so they can make even more fun of me! :o

Sasq
27th March 2002, 10:09
After just getting my abit repaired due to those damn cheap caps. have a look at the caps around the the power connecter cpu area. see if any are mishapen, bulging at the top or leaking. If yes get the mobo replaced and/or sacrifice it the the great sledge hammer gods :D

Dan

Greebe
27th March 2002, 10:10
get a decent one from MSI for Gigabyte for examample!

Now there's a word! lol

Dr Mordrid
27th March 2002, 10:30
"exaMAMple!"

Maybe the thought of a pair of bulging caps reminded him of his girlfriend? :)

Dr. Mordrid

woel
27th March 2002, 12:15
Hi!

Well I guess I talk with the people who sold me the motherboard and see what the think and perhaps I send it back to them.

Get an Asus i probably a good idea. They've never let me down.

I think this problem is so very strange. My computer is as stable as it can be after one reboot.

/Leo

Wombat
27th March 2002, 13:40
It's likely caps, but I wouldn't rule out cold solder yet.

Can you leave it in the sun or something before you turn it on? Heat gun?

woel
27th March 2002, 13:51
Is it good to have a motherboard in direct sunlight? But I guess the effect is the same if I just turn off the computer and then turn it on... I think I tried that and it worked...

/Leo

Wombat
27th March 2002, 14:18
Actually, they're very different effects. Turning the computer on brings charge through the caps. I'm trying to help you find out if it's a temperature issue or an electrical issue.

woel
28th March 2002, 01:20
Do you mean that if I have my computer on for a while and then turns it off and after a short while turns it on it is not the same as heating it up in the sun?

Wombat
28th March 2002, 08:25
Exactly. The sun won't put any electricity through it.

woel
28th March 2002, 13:34
Okej.. I know that the sun don't put any electricity throw my board, =), but I thought that most of the electricity would be gone if I waited about 3 minutes.

Anyway.. I think I try the sun thing after I come back from one weeks skiing in Norway. =)

Thanx for the help!
See you guys in 10 days..

/Leo

woel
8th April 2002, 09:57
Hi everyone!

I'm back and my problem is not gone...

Here is what I've tried:
Bought a knew psu
Tried to look at the motherboard to see if I could see anything wrong with it
Tried with my old graphics card
Put arctic silver 3 between the chipset and the chipset heatsink
Put arctic silver 3 between the cpu and the heatsink

Some things I haven't tried:
I haven't removed my sound card and my network card
I haven't tried another hard disk
I haven't tried another motherboard
I haven't reflashed either my motherboard bios or graphic card bios for a while
I haven't put my computer in the sun to get warm before I start it
I haven't reinstalled win xp in a while

Please give me some suggestions on what you think I should try to find the problem. A lot of you said that it probalby was the caps on the motherboard. My english is not excellent but I guess you mean the capacitators, do you? I can't see anything wrong with the anyway.


Thanx for all help!

/Leo

Greebe
8th April 2002, 10:14
A lot of you said that it probalby was the caps on the motherboard. My english is not excellent but I guess you mean the capacitators, do you?

Yes we do :)

Try all the above? ;)

Fred H
8th April 2002, 11:13
Can you leave it in the sun or something before you turn it on? Heat gun?

Careful use a hair dryer. :) :cool:

Fred H

woel
9th April 2002, 12:54
Hi!

I did the hair dryer trick....
It didn't crash when I heated the computer before startup... =) ?

What now? What is wrong?
Can it be my volcano 7 that spins up?
Is it the motherboard?

Thankyou!

/Leo

The PIT
10th April 2002, 10:41
If it's dry joint unless it's clear to see you won't find it it could also be a crack between the layers of the motherboard. If it's under warrenty rma it if it isn't buy a new one. Since it worked with the hair dryer trick it sounds like a dry joint of solder.

woel
11th April 2002, 06:20
I'm not really sure what you mean with dry joint but I understand that I should return my motherboard.
You don't think that it could be another part of my system that is the problem, I mean the hair dryer warmed up all the system...

Thanx!

/Leo

Greebe
11th April 2002, 06:41
Actually TP is refering to possible cold solder joints.

Mechanical weakened solder connect are commonly refered to as cold. Normally higher resistance and or intermittent also and are subject to temperature changes (expansion/compression). To fix this it would require a touchup of the offending connection... in cases like this I'd be looking for a solder pot cause a 5 second dip would fix (unless the pcb is defective tho not nearly as common).

The PIT
11th April 2002, 10:39
Lot simplier to rma it then risk blowing your warranty.

Greebe
11th April 2002, 11:05
I agree :)

woel
13th April 2002, 03:11
I think rma is the moste realistic option...
:)

woel
2nd May 2002, 07:44
Hmmm.....

I haven't had time to return my motherboard yet... and thanx? to that I've noted something even more strange about my cold boot problem...
If I press ctrl + alt + del just after I start my computer one or two times before windows starts to boot it doesn't crash. Seems lik a reboot resets the computer to a stable mode or something.
Any thoughts on your initial recommendation?

Greebe
2nd May 2002, 07:46
Nope sorry

cbman
2nd May 2002, 08:12
Hitting CTRL-ALT-DEL during startup doesn't turn the power off, so there is still power going to the system and if it takes a few seconds to restart the boot process all the while your system is getting warmer... its now a warm boot.

So its not really fixing the problem...

Wombat
2nd May 2002, 08:39
I can't be exactly sure what the problem is, but this "solution" would cover a decent subset of possibilities:

See if your MB BIOS lets you control the hard drive spin-up time, and increase it. This will give your system a little longer to power-up before it tries to boot.

woel
3rd May 2002, 04:42
Hi!

Thanx for the tip I will try it as soon as I get home from school.

But about one ctrl+alt+del will turn it into a warm boot... my system usually hangs from a few seconds from windows starts up to a few minutes so why would a reboot before windows even starts to load make a difference?

/Leo