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  • Dvorak on Itanium

    March 5, 2002
    Itanium Conundrum Dept.
    By John C. Dvorak

    Itanium Conundrum Dept.: Intel has to be concerned that its Itanium chip, long touted as the greatest thing since sliced bread, will turn out to be a flop, not unlike the once-idealized 432-MHz chip. The Itanium, which is the official name for the 64-bit chip codeveloped with Hewlett-Packard, may have no appeal for the largest market segments. It's beginning to look more like an expensive specialty chip for servers in a market glut. This means it's possible that the mass market will eventually rock over toward the AMD x86-64 chip, which was designed both to compete with the Itanium and to be a fully compatible upgrade to the Athlon/Pentium architecture.

    This situation has resulted in the emergence of numerous rumors that Intel is cloning the AMD 64-bit Hammer architecture and readying its chip (code-named Yamhill) to roll into the marketplace?in case of an emergency. Cynics are referring to this as the Intel 64-bit Plan B strategy. This would mark the first time that Intel has had to play performance catch-up and follow the AMD lead in design, which would be the most humiliating blow for Intel, ever.

    How did Intel get into this pickle? I believe it began when the company was too aggressive in dealing with its competition and felt that there was no room in the market for Alpha, MIPS, or SPARC, not to mention AMD. Thus, Intel promised the be-all, end-all chip of the future some years back. The chip was then dubbed the IA-64 architecture and code-named Merced, and nearly every manufacturer in the world lined up behind it because of the Intel hype. In all my years of following this industry, I have never seen such sheeplike behavior. Not that I was surprised. Sun Microsystems was even included for a little while. But Sun got smart fast and backed out of the herd.

    The grand promises Intel made had the effect of ending HP's PA-WW chip development that was under way in the early 1990s and killing PA-RISC, while pummeling any hopes for Alpha and MIPS. By 1997, everyone had signed on, and in 1998, some people were even suggesting that Apple should drop the PowerPC in favor of the IA-64. Thus, it was easy for Intel to begin to believe its own publicity when the company saw it had the future market for servers and perhaps most of the computer world all to itself. In the process, Intel may have become lax and taken its eye off the x86 ball.

    The irony here is that Intel built a patent blockade around the IA-64 architecture that experts say is impermeable. This literally forced AMD to continue on the old x86 treadmill, with faster x86 processors that add new features. Hence, AMD developed the AMD x86-64 Hammer designs, which is what the bulk of users want anyway. These designs could leave Intel with a high-priced, who-needs-it architecture that will forever remain high-end and subject to competition from below?from AMD, from older Intel designs, and possibly from an Intel clone of the AMD processor. Wouldn't that be funny!

    Genuinely Interesting Web Site Dept.: The pre-Internet era of IA-64 hype was a time of weird assertions. And since the business was heating up, you had the "in a hurricane, even a pig can fly" phenomenon. Thus we saw Intel's "Pinky and The Brain" scheme to take over the world with the IA-64. Enter a cool research tool called The Wayback Machine, at www.archive.org. The tool links to a database of archived Web sites and started in 1996.

    Articles that were run on the Web in 1996 are quite revealing. For example, Intel's then-CEO Andy Grove, while speaking at the 1996 Intel Internet Strategy Day, claimed that TV streamed to the PC would become a major trend, and he expected average U.S. PC viewing hours to overtake average television viewing hours by the year 2000. These kinds of crackpot assertions, which became rampant during this period, helped contribute to the Internet bubble. Check out the site for some good laughs.

    What Are They Thinking? Dept.: I was looking over what appeared to be an interesting mesh methodology for doing Webcasting. The idea is to create a P2P mesh with recipients of a Webcast acting as repeater stations and becoming broadcasters at the same time, in some sort of ping-pong-ball?like scheme, developed by AllCast Corp. out of New York (www.allcast.com). The concept requires a browser plug-in, and therein lies the rub. Although the plug-in is free, I immediately got suspicious when I read the license for the plug-in. You're limited to using the thing for one computer only, which tells me that I can't copy or transfer the file to a friend for his use. Exactly what is the point of all these distribution limitations on a piece of free plug-in browser software that's supposed to create some sort of universal P2P Webcasting environment?

    You get the sense that there is a hidden agenda. Spyware or adware, perhaps? Monitoring? Who knows? When you see this kind of legal weirdness, my advice is to say, "no, thanks" and walk away. I don't care how good the idea sounds. I'm sick of these ridiculous licenses. Always read the license agreement. Too many are simply onerous or suspicious or both. Just say no.


    PCMag is your complete guide to computers, peripherals and upgrades. We test and review tech products and services, report technology news and trends, and provide shopping advice with price comparisons.

  • #2
    And the Hammer is already in public demo.

    Has anyone seen a Itanium other than in Hype-rtext and wag-the-dog "news" reports?

    Dr. Mordrid
    Dr. Mordrid
    ----------------------------
    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

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    • #3
      yet another bla bla bla ... there is hundreds of them out on the www .. I don't really care.
      Fear, Makes Wise Men Foolish !
      incentivize transparent paradigms

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      • #4
        Intel Plan B...that's great. Dvorak is one of the few really good PC columnists out there. Always a good read. I will laugh myself to death if Intel is forced to play reverse engineer an AMD hammer chip.

        Jammrock
        “Inside every sane person there’s a madman struggling to get out”
        –The Light Fantastic, Terry Pratchett

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        • #5
          That would indeed be a major league ROTFLMAO!!

          And yes, Dvorak is one of the most insightful writers on the computer scene. Not an irrelevant blowhard like a certain writer for Byte

          Dr. Mordrid

          Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 6 March 2002, 08:11.
          Dr. Mordrid
          ----------------------------
          An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

          I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
            And the Hammer is already in public demo.

            Dr. Mordrid

            ROFL

            I haven't seen one .. .have you ?
            Last edited by Kosh Naranek; 6 March 2002, 08:26.
            Fear, Makes Wise Men Foolish !
            incentivize transparent paradigms

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
              And the Hammer is already in public demo.

              Has anyone seen a Itanium other than in Hype-rtext and wag-the-dog "news" reports?

              Dr. Mordrid
              Hammer isn't <I>anywhere</I> except on stage. If that's your yardstick, we demoed McKinley in much the same way in Dec 200<B>0</B>.

              And there thousands of Merced boxes out there now, but most are being used to test/prove setups for McKinley boxes.

              After seeing the AMD Hammer presentations, it may have great performance as a workstation setup, but the server-class reliability just doesn't seem to be there.
              Gigabyte P35-DS3L with a Q6600, 2GB Kingston HyperX (after *3* bad pairs of Crucial Ballistix 1066), Galaxy 8800GT 512MB, SB X-Fi, some drives, and a Dell 2005fpw. Running WinXP.

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              • #9
                I do agree IA-64 is a very controversial and I would say arrogant project from Intel. They must think everyone will be coding and recompiling into 64 bit from one day to another... like when the i386 was out, every software turned into 32 bit that day, right?

                AMD x86-64 is the smart and rational step into the PC arquitecture. It´s able to run new 64 bit code without loosing compatibility with all the predecessing software.

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                • #10
                  It's not an arrogant project. It's not supposed to be the next thing in the PC architecture. I think you're missing the point, probably because you misunderstand the market, when these things are happening in an area of business you probably haven't even considered.

                  IA-64 is <B>not</B> for your average consumer. It's not even for your "cutting-edge" consumer. It's for the same guys that have been buying the big boxes for years. Anybody that thinks that they will have an IA-64 as their home desktop over the next few years has made a grevious(sp?) mistake.

                  The PC market is a commodity business. Everybody is on x86 or Mac, and buys pretty much the same software as their peers.
                  In comparison, people that buy servers buy whatever meets their needs the best, and the software is generally custom-tailored to that. They need Oracle, or a render farm, or massive simulation and data mining. First order, they don't (haven't) care if it's on Alpha, or Sparc, or PA-RISC, or Power3/4, or a thermonuclear abacus. For the most part, x86 hasn't been a part of these equations <I>at all</I>, it just can't play with the big boys.
                  x86 doesn't have the horsepower, reliability, or supporting chipsets to be a server platform.
                  If a platform performs, and has the features (reliability, upgradability, etc) that they want, then that's the solution. When a business has needs like that, it's in the software maker's and hardware maker's best interest to make sure that their products play nice with each other. Recompiliation is a given, and really just the beginning anyway.
                  Gigabyte P35-DS3L with a Q6600, 2GB Kingston HyperX (after *3* bad pairs of Crucial Ballistix 1066), Galaxy 8800GT 512MB, SB X-Fi, some drives, and a Dell 2005fpw. Running WinXP.

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                  • #11
                    Well, maybe I did miss the point if Itanium was really devoted only to the high-end server/workstation market. But if so, what´s the whole point of John Dvorak article?

                    And if Intel was really only aiming that market why devoting resourses emulating 32-bit by software (if I remember correctly that was the solution Intel talked about to insure backward compatibility)?

                    How about future Intel desktop cpu's? Will they continue to milk the 32-bit P4 arquitecture for years (well, they did it with the Pentium pro ) when AMD is close to launch a mixed 32/64 bit chip with 64-bit OS support (Linux and Windows)?

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                    • #12
                      Originally posted by Nuno
                      Well, maybe I did miss the point if Itanium was really devoted only to the high-end server/workstation market. But if so, what´s the whole point of John Dvorak article?
                      Got me. The article holds no meaning for me at all. It's fun to read, but of no value. He does a good job of dropping buzzwords, but he doesn't actually know his history.

                      And if Intel was really only aiming that market why devoting resourses emulating 32-bit by software (if I remember correctly that was the solution Intel talked about to insure backward compatibility)?
                      It's really just to avoid scaring customers away. Also, that 1 in 1000 time you need to run a specific program for whatever reason.

                      How about future Intel desktop cpu's? Will they continue to milk the 32-bit P4 arquitecture for years (well, they did it with the Pentium pro ) when AMD is close to launch a mixed 32/64 bit chip with 64-bit OS support (Linux and Windows)?
                      Sorry, NDA.
                      Gigabyte P35-DS3L with a Q6600, 2GB Kingston HyperX (after *3* bad pairs of Crucial Ballistix 1066), Galaxy 8800GT 512MB, SB X-Fi, some drives, and a Dell 2005fpw. Running WinXP.

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                      • #13
                        Ok, lets wait and see then...

                        Don´t get me wrong, I´m by no means a AMD zealot or something like that, but I do think Intel has just shot itself on the foot too many times in the past. It´s getting better now, with DDR support, cheap and highly overclockable northwoods. Competition is what drives the market, and AMD since the original slot-A Athlon has done a preety good job keeping up with Intel...

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                        • #14
                          The last company I worked for, in Enterprise Storage Management, ported their mainstay product to 64-bit over four years ago. Yes, there's a market.
                          <TABLE BGCOLOR=Red><TR><TD><Font-weight="+1"><font COLOR=Black>The world just changed, Sep. 11, 2001</font></Font-weight></TR></TD></TABLE>

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                          • #15
                            Wombat,

                            Intel had a blooper.
                            The Itanium takes too much power and disipiates too much heat.
                            Too much heat = more fans. more fans mean more chances for failure.
                            When a fan fails, you lose a CPU either cause it's burned or it's shut down in order not to burn.

                            This is why the Itanium lost to Sparc and IBM chips in multi-cpu servers.
                            For smaller servers, people who went with sun tend to stay there and the others aren't too quick about leaving thir trusty x86 environment.

                            The Itanium is Intel's G200 - a fiasco.
                            Time for plan B...

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