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View Full Version : OK, here it is! But donīt tell anyone yet.



Julgransfot
5th March 2002, 10:47
Here you can read about the new <a href="http://w1.877.telia.com/~u87712637/Goat.pdf" target="_blank">Matrox GOAT</a>

K6-III
5th March 2002, 10:54
Time for some skepticism, but I don't know...

TdB
5th March 2002, 11:38
:eek:

350mhz gpu! 16 layer multitexture + 4xfsaa in one pass by coprocessor at 700mhz!!!

128 mb 400ddr and an interresting mention of HSR.

AND best of all: 20" "tft-shaped(almost)" monitor included!!!!!!

:eek:


oh, and almost forgot: pixel and vertex-shaders.

DuRaNgO
5th March 2002, 11:40
someone's in BIG trouble :(

TdB
5th March 2002, 11:42
Originally posted by DuRaNgO
someone's in BIG trouble :(

what? did someone break an NDA??

Tempest
5th March 2002, 11:47
:D

Edit: If this is true, then you can remember me as the first one to disbelieve it =)
Edit2: And such a nice name it has... I think even "Ralph" would sell better =)

TdB
5th March 2002, 11:55
make that 2 vertexshaders...

is this the parhelia? or another fake?

if it is real, then i have only one complain: the name.

"Matrox GOAT", it sounds REALLY stupid, i will buy it anyway, if it isnīt too expensive. :D

rubank
5th March 2002, 12:03
I think GOAT is the acronym for the technology. It may be silly, but what do you say about Quincunx, MUTIOL and so forth.

Of course the retail card will have another name (I hope)

rubank

TdB
5th March 2002, 12:05
i donīt really think this is a fake.
most fakes, are just nvidia spec multiplied by 2.
it is too "different" to be a fake.

Hyp-X
5th March 2002, 12:07
Originally posted by TDB
is this the parhelia? or another fake?


1. No, it isn't Parhelia.
2. Yes it is.

TdB
5th March 2002, 12:09
Originally posted by rubank
I think GOAT is the acronym for the technology. It may be silly, but what do you say about Quincunx, MUTIOL and so forth.

Of course the retail card will have another name (I hope)

rubank

what happend to parhelia, at least that didnīt sound stupid, is this the parhelia or something else we havenīt heard of?:confused:
hmm! atleast it starts with the letter "G":rolleyes:

TdB
5th March 2002, 12:25
something confuses me about this pdf, i mean who is it for? the matrox pr-department, for internal use :confused:
we never see this kind of stuff on the their website.

it isnīt nearly as crazy as headcasting, but it sounds like matrox to me.

KeiFront
5th March 2002, 12:43
The PDF is made with CorelDraw 10 at 3/5/2002 19:32:31 so I guess it's definatly a fake one.

Only yesterday the register :rolleyes: announced that Samsung will produce 400Mhz DDR ram. And now a Matrox card would use this same type 128Mb of 400Mhz DDR.

guillenv
5th March 2002, 12:49
this is another fake :(

TdB
5th March 2002, 12:49
hmm! i guess i made a fool out of myself this time.
:o

if it is a fake, then it was the best one i have read so far, i actually believed it. :o

TdB
5th March 2002, 12:59
just because the pdf is new, doesnīt mean it is a fake, it just means it got leaked VERY quickly... :p LOL

hmm, who am i kidding, well we will hopefully know something soon(and i mean a normal "soon").

KeiFront
5th March 2002, 13:02
You mean sooner ™ than soon ™ :p

Hyp-X
5th March 2002, 13:06
In GDC we trust.

Julgransfot
5th March 2002, 13:21
Of course this file has been editied in my computer, that doesnīt mean it has originated there!

Some things, like names and so on, canīt be revealed. You ought to understand that.

But if you donīt beleive the info itīs totally up to you, of course.

borat
5th March 2002, 13:26
Julgransfot

thank you for sharng this with the forum. to be quite honest not many people in these forums will believe tat any info is true untill it comes direct from the big M because of the dissapointment of the last year but if this is true they will look mildly silly uppon announcement. if it is untrue however and you claim it to be true then you will look very silly.but still we shouldnt worry about what others think of us too much.;)

rubank
5th March 2002, 13:27
Youīve had your fun,
donīt stretch it.

Principally you could be right, of course. But you aint.

rubank

borat
5th March 2002, 13:50
sorry but on second reading that is totally unbelievable!

IcedEarth
5th March 2002, 13:53
How can one believe that this is isn't a fake? I mean.... just look at the layout of the whole document; the font that was used, the absence of an official Matrox logo, the unprofessional look of it... seriously :-)

borat
5th March 2002, 13:55
the presentation should not matter as the person concerned may wish to disguise the source to protect antone under nda but if you read it it is fantasy speil.

rubank
5th March 2002, 14:24
IcedEarth,

of course this is a joke, but I donīt understand your arguement. Why the hell should this document have an official Marox logo? Itīs perfectly clear that it is NOT a Matrox doc.

To me itīs clearly meant to look like a draft for a presentation or the lead-in to a hardware review. The layout is just what these reviews mostly look like.

Very entertaining, me thinks.

rubank

cerb
5th March 2002, 14:44
Would it have spelling mistakes in it, though?

Julgransfot
5th March 2002, 14:52
5 March - SiS to present AGP 8X and DDR400 powered chipset at CeBIT?


According to unofficial sources, SiS is going to showcase its SiS648 core-logic for motherboards at CeBIT, next week. What is really interesting regarding this chipset is the fact that it supports AGP 8X and DDR400 (PC 3200 DDR SDRAM) memory.

If SiS is really going to show how the chipset works with AGP 8X, meanwhile even Intel has not yet shown it, they will have to demonstrate it together with a 3D accelerator that supports AGP 8X. In this case, we wonder, which one will it be.

SiS will also show and announce its new version of SiS645 - SIS 645DX that supports Pentium4 processors with 533 MHz FSB.


Hmmm ;)

tr4veler
5th March 2002, 23:31
I'd put pretty good money that SIS demo's their new AGP speeds with either and integrated GFX or an updated 315 card.

BTW any one else checked out SIS's 315 and integrated graphics. On paper all it's missing is dual chanel DDR to rival/beat nForce. multi display, YPbPr out, full screen AA, hardware DVD.

MK
6th March 2002, 01:23
If that is true I will eat my hat !

MK ;)

Nappe1
6th March 2002, 02:37
Originally posted by Hyp-X
In GDC we trust.

yes we do! :)

Jammrock
6th March 2002, 06:35
In GDC we are delusional! I am here to break you all of your silly Matrox ways. Nothing will be announced at GDC. You are all fooling yourselves!

Jammrock

TdB
6th March 2002, 06:40
i must admit im not yet 100% sure this is fake, can you disbelievers point out the unbelievable stuff, for me ??:confused:

Hyp-X
6th March 2002, 07:25
Originally posted by TDB
i must admit im not yet 100% sure this is fake, can you disbelievers point out the unbelievable stuff, for me ??:confused:

I will tell you in a fortnight, ok? :D

Nappe1
6th March 2002, 07:32
nevermind.... ;)

VJ
6th March 2002, 07:41
TDB:

Here are the things that make me doubt :
1. It does seem very unlikely to me that M would be able to develop a new kind of display without this leaking out.
2. How do they get enough light from the videocard (what is the lightsource : laser, ...) ? According to the file, the display is connected optically with the card. To my knowledge, there currently is no chip that could provide a sufficiant amount of light to drive an entire display.
3. Isn't it very risky for a company to be the sole manufacturer/developper of a certain piece of hardware ? If it succeeds, than ok, but if it doesn't....
4. There is quite a coincidence between the launch of the Samsung memory chip and the fact that this new Matroxcard would use it...
5. It would mean a huge marketshift for Matrox : from cards to displays (and cards)... Quite often, an established company doesn't make such shifts (or if they do the first acquire another company that has experience in the market they'd like to shift to).

Just my opinion...

Jörg

borat
6th March 2002, 08:06
if a company were able to make the display like the one shown for 50 dollars then it would have already happened as it would be way cheaper than anything currently available and as such companies would be rushing to prduce them to get market share. plus why does the light need to come from the graphics card? they would sell way more if it came with its own light as it would be compatible with all graphics cards and thus revenues would increase. plus the costs of putting this optical output on a g.card wuld be hugh. and ohh yeah it would drink an awfull lot of juice from the psu.
having said this however my memory has been jogged that haig once said that the card may need an awfull lot of power with a possible psu connector.but i still dont believe this story on gut instinct.

TdB
6th March 2002, 08:19
Originally posted by VJ
TDB:

Here are the things that make me doubt :
1. It does seem very unlikely to me that M would be able to develop a new kind of display without this leaking out.
2. How do they get enough light from the videocard (what is the lightsource : laser, ...) ? According to the file, the display is connected optically with the card. To my knowledge, there currently is no chip that could provide a sufficiant amount of light to drive an entire display.
3. Isn't it very risky for a company to be the sole manufacturer/developper of a certain piece of hardware ? If it succeeds, than ok, but if it doesn't....
4. There is quite a coincidence between the launch of the Samsung memory chip and the fact that this new Matroxcard would use it...
5. It would mean a huge marketshift for Matrox : from cards to displays (and cards)... Quite often, an established company doesn't make such shifts (or if they do the first acquire another company that has experience in the market they'd like to shift to).

Just my opinion...

Jörg

1. headcasting suprised all of us, only one tech-site guessed it, and only few weeks before announcement.

2. my guess would be some very powerfull LEDs, just the other day i saw a prototype LED that used 3 watt and lit like a 50watt lightbulp, and its tiny battery could (suposedly) last almost forever.

3. i think matrox desperately tries to be different from everybody else, you are talking about the company that invented headcasting, renember. :p

4. i donīt have any answers to that. :confused:

5. some of their imaging hardware have displays aswell..., im not sure if matrox makes those displays themselves though.

NocturnDragon
6th March 2002, 10:22
Just too good to be true!

rubank
6th March 2002, 10:23
Obviously the <a href="http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1593&p=3" target="_blank">technology</a> isnīt unheard of, but the M application surely is.

rubank

TdB
6th March 2002, 10:26
Just too good to be true!

thats the only thing the worries me.
:(

but again, i was worried about that when the g400 rumors started too. :p

perhaps the g550 affair has destroyed our faith in rumors. :(

TdB
6th March 2002, 10:34
Originally posted by rubank
Obviously the <a href="http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1593&p=3" target="_blank">technology</a> isnīt unheard of, but the M application surely is.

rubank

the cabling is the least of it, i think people have trouble believing the 50$ 20" monitor, i mean it is a completely new monitor technology.

NocturnDragon
6th March 2002, 10:37
How could we believe about TALKING HEADS?

But surely there are too many coincidence this time.
1) Samsung memory just annunced
2)Anandtech article kinda recent

But then the light of the sun isn't just as bright as the fiber one? lol :D

rubank
6th March 2002, 11:03
TDB,

what do you think the PRODUCTION cost is for an ordinary flatbed scanner?

Or, for comparison, what do think the prod. cost for a digital camera that retails for, say $500, is? Iīd say under $100.


I like this thread :D

rubank

borat
6th March 2002, 11:35
yes u have a point the actual production costs will be low but the r & d is a huge expense and i count this as one of the costs. hence a geeforce 4 which costs only 40 dollars in materials retails for 350 dollars

TdB
6th March 2002, 12:06
well, the retail monitor might have a rather high price tag, matrox has always been expensive. but even if they charge say 600$+ for the card+monitor, it will still be a good deal, even though it might be too expensive for alot of people. I would probably buy it, but then again i only have a 17" monitor(a good one though) now.

hehe, it might even be a good idea to sell the combo cheap if you think about it: in the future when people will upgrade from this card they might keep the monitor, that is they have a really good monitor, that requires really REALLY good 2d-quality, and will they find this with the competition?? only time will tell, if you have a really good monitor you get addicted to good 2d.

the best way to make people appreciate the high quality of matrox 2d, is to give them a good monitor.

alot of people will be "forced" to stick with matrox. :p

NocturnDragon
6th March 2002, 12:38
Does anybody know if the G450 MMS has some strange and new video out connector? i wouldn't mind have 8 monitors like those ones!

xortam
6th March 2002, 15:12
You folks do realize that TI has had a light mirror chip out for years?! The TI DLP (Digital Light Processor) is used in projection TVs, mostly as a one chip solution using a color wheel though a very expensive three chip projector has been produced.

Jammrock
6th March 2002, 15:20
xortam,

I was watching a DLP projector last night. Not mine, mind you, but a beautiful Runco DL-300c (http://www.runco.com/Products/DLP/DR300c.htm). And it can be yours for a measely $13000 USD!!! That's not even their high end product either. There are several others out there that are much less money, but I haven't seen one that looks nicer than a Runco (http://www.runco.com). TI first announced the technology in 1993-4.

The Runco DLP's have a native resolution starting at 1024x768, and can go as high as 200 inches diagonally. That would rock playing UT, CS or the like on a 200" screen. Now all I need is $13000...

On top of that, there are DLP movie theaters now too. A local theater has one digital screen, that uses DLP. Watching animated movie, CGI movies and movie with lots of effects look wonderful. Others movies look fine, but the ones with a lot of CG really shine.

Jammrock

xortam
6th March 2002, 15:33
I first saw a DLP R/FPTV about 4-5 years ago. I haven't personally viewed any since but I understand they still have some inherent problems, e.g. screening effect, poor black levels and of course the outrageous price of the three chip products. I had also heard of the three chip movie theaters for some time but I haven't visited one.

Jammrock
6th March 2002, 15:40
Can't say about other DLP projectors, haven't seen one in a while, but the movie theater on and the Runco I watched didn't have any of those inherent issues. Of course the Runco DL-300c comes with a special color and screen management control box that helps eliminate them.

Jammrock

xortam
6th March 2002, 16:02
The three chip design effectively eliminates the screening effect but at great cost ... I was hearing $60,000 price tags. I'll check out DLPs again some time soon as I hope to finally get my HDTV this year. The chip had great promise of allowing inexpensive products. It does allow for cheap long-lasting lamps and screens which can be quite an expense with some of these technologies. I worry that DLP will never live up to its initial hype.

VJ
7th March 2002, 00:25
TDB:

Well, your arguments, along with Rubanks link to the technology has made me switch sides... From it technological point of view, it seems not that unlikely.

(I tend to agree with nocturn_dragon : If anyone had told us about the headcasting beforehand, would we have believed it ? :D )

Is there any chance of finding out whether M purchased / licensed the technology referred to by Rubank ?

Jörg

DentyCracker
7th March 2002, 06:35
Is it a mere coincidence the the card is the Matrox GOAT Greatest Of All Time :D:D:D

rubank
7th March 2002, 07:52
Originally posted by VJ
....(I tend to agree with nocturn_dragon : If anyone had told us about the headcasting beforehand, would we have believed it ? :D )
Jörg

Chicks Hardsware told it. As I recall noone beleived them :D :D

rubank

NocturnDragon
7th March 2002, 13:52
I just don't want to believe it just yet, but it's getting more real everyday!

Jon P. Inghram
7th March 2002, 14:50
It's not real. Reason? If it was Matrox would have killed the site by now. :)

DuRaNgO
7th March 2002, 17:59
yeah, that would have covered it up :p

Jon P. Inghram
7th March 2002, 18:05
Lets say you get ahold of a technical report on the new Pentium 5, and post it on your website and let everyone know about. Do you think they're just gonna sit back and not do anything even if the damage had already been done?

Oh well, it'll be interesting to see anyways...

DuRaNgO
7th March 2002, 18:23
1. It would depend on how close it was to being released (the info)
2. As long as only "some" of the info was shown and not the most important features ;)

Tempest
7th March 2002, 19:12
And asking someone to remove this kinds of documents is kind of admitting that they are true.

Julgransfot
8th March 2002, 07:18
OK guys, before I log out Iīll make it absolutely clear that the GOAT is nothing but a figment of my imagination. I was home sick for a couple of days and had nothing better to do than to engineer this blatent hoax.

It was really fun while it lasted, and I hope no one is seriously and permanently mad at me for this.

I know many of you have high hopes for an almost-here new M card, especially after VigilAnts article.
But you should ask yourself, who will help Matrox manufacture, market, distribute and sell these supposed-to-be wonders? You do realize that Matrox doesnīt have the financial muscles or the production capabilities to pull this off on their own, donīt you? Remember how they had obvious problems to deliver the G400/MAX cards and theyīre certainly not in better shape now.

To have a reasonable return on the huge investment in R&D that the alleged products must have taken (not to mention the effort and cost of developing true professional drivers for the high-end workstation market some of these cards are said to focus on) M needs to sell a lot of cards, at high price. This will take some considerable marketing. Itīs new grounds for Matrox, itīs not exactly famous for itīs pro OGL cards like 3D Labs, FireGL et al.

And M is also said to re-enter the high-end gaming/prosumer market. Well, then it must be made clear that this is no easy task. Above all, it will take humongous marketing costs and efforts – keep in mind that Matrox is practically absent here today. Itīll have to start from scratch to build itself the necessary position. The current fan-base is way too small.
Not even 3D Labs pulled it off in this market segment, despite well-earned reputation for high quality hardware and drivers, and some good technology. And 3D Labs is a public company, with the benefits of funding that this gives. And only other public companies, nVidia and ATI have had the strength to make it to the top. You also know at what cost (the SEC hounding nVidia). nVidia seized an opportunity when no one else seemed to it take really seriously, when 3D was only taking off, and Ati wouldnīt have made it this far starting from a less dominant position.

Matrox had itīs moment of opportunity a while after the G400 series launch, it had momentum in the marketplace. Something it today sorely lacks. Iīm afraid M is firmly in the trap, and no one is setting it lose. No way Matrox will pull it off on their own.

Sure. Matrox has itīs place, itīs market. The business/financial/scientific markets with their special needs and preferences, the low-end OEM market (the standard office boxes), but according to the rumours Matrox is now after something else, something much, much more demanding than just catering to your loyals.

I canīt emphasize it enough: successful launch at multiple market segments consumes enormous resources in production, marketing, sales and distribution.

OK, Iīm off. Maybe Iīll be seeing you in a couple of years, in time for the next gen M card.

Bye.

VJ
8th March 2002, 07:25
Julgransfot:

Good one !
I don't think anyone will be mad at you, this way we managed to pass another couple of days awaiting GDC... I must admit is was very nicely thought out and put together :D. And it is a change from a fake press release or a fake product box (we've all gotten used to those, yet they still remain funny)...

And what a way to make an entry in these forums ! :)
(also decent of you for comming out into the clear)


Jörg

edit: Euhm, did they pay you to post this confession ? :D:):D

Rimfaxe
8th March 2002, 07:26
you made a good point there Julgransfot.

bye bye


but still...

what if Matrox released a videocard that was a l o t faster then GF4 and had a price tag that wasn't much bigger then GF4...
that wouldn't go passed unnoticed! :D

Sasq
8th March 2002, 07:33
Plus all the free advertising they are getting here :D

Dan

rubank
8th March 2002, 08:23
...who will help Matrox manufacture, market, distribute and sell these supposed-to-be wonders?...

Via will be making a major announcement at CeBit. They have confirmed they are in talks with a 3d graphics company. Many think itīs STM.

Maybe it isnīt :D

rubank

FormerEx-SalesSoup
8th March 2002, 09:06
Originally posted by Julgransfot
...Matrox doesnīt have the financial muscles or the production capabilities to pull this off on their own, donīt you? Remember how they had obvious problems to deliver the G400/MAX cards and theyīre certainly not in better shape now.

...

Matrox had itīs moment of opportunity a while after the G400 series launch, it had momentum in the marketplace. Something it today sorely lacks. Iīm afraid M is firmly in the trap, and no one is setting it lose. No way Matrox will pull it off on their own....

...

OK, Iīm off. Maybe Iīll be seeing you in a couple of years, in time for the next gen M card.

Bye.

:D

Ant
8th March 2002, 09:18
:D too, and happy birthday Soupy :)

Helevitia
8th March 2002, 10:33
well, since the Owner of MURC and one of the Matrox employees feels :D about the above posted info, then I feel :D :D about it.

Dave

TdB
8th March 2002, 10:58
LOL! :D

cool joke, i actually believed it.
:o

seriously: i really think matrox will succeed this time. :)

tr4veler
21st March 2002, 12:52
Originally posted by tr4veler
I'd put pretty good money that SIS demo's their new AGP speeds with either and integrated GFX or an updated 315 card.

BTW any one else checked out SIS's 315 and integrated graphics. On paper all it's missing is dual chanel DDR to rival/beat nForce. multi display, YPbPr out, full screen AA, hardware DVD.

Yea, I think I'm the first one to guess correctly, or at least be proven correct. :o