Mouse Clicks -> Dropped Frames??

[DrFaust]

Greetings all!

Just recently, I've been getting back into video editing with my Marvel G200 and I've run into a bit of a problem. I'm hoping someone can shed some light.

Now, it seems that I am unable to capture at full resolution, miniumum compression without dropped frames every few minutes. I've been doing some testing with the PC-VCR and AVI/O. With PC-VCR, I *think* that my drops are due to the transitions over the 2GB limit but with AVI/O I get a dropped frame every few minutes.

Now, I've tried all the tricks listed in the FAQ, I recently bought a Maxtor 40GB HD for exclusive capture (I'm planning to do some heavy capturing this weekend). But, I still get the drops. I've shut down all programs (checked via CTRL-ALT-DEL). The strangest thing I've noticed is that when AVI/O is capturing, when I right click my mouse, I almost always get a few more dropped frames?! Oh, and even when I choose the smallest resolution at any compression, the problem remains. Something in my setup is causing this but I don't know what. Here are my specs:

PII400, ASUS P2B-LS, 128 MB,
Marvel G200-TV, Voodoo2 SLI
SoundBlaster X-Gamer (new addition)
Plextor SCSII CD-ROM/CD-R
Pioneer SCSII DVD-ROM
Maxtor 10 GB 7200 rpm HD (primary master, sys drive)
Maxtor 20 GB 7200 rpm HD (secondary master)
Maxtor 40 GB 7200 rpm HD (secondary slave)

Latest PowerDesk and VidTools, upgraded G200 bios, upgraded to latest mobo bios.

Running Norton Anti-Virus (but was shut down and removed via CTRL-ALT-DEL). Only Explorer was listed and drops still occured.

I can think of two things that *may* be the problem: the X-Gamer soundcard or the fact that the 40 GB drive is on the slave. I'm hoping that someone could test the mouse-click and see if they get drops while capturing. Otherwise, any hints on how to track down the culprit? TIA.

dRfAuSt

[johnpr98]

Is DMA enabled on your hard drive?
Check this first as this makes a big difference.

Also another useful utility from Maxtor can be found at www.maxtor.com/libary/main.html called 66update.exe

If your mb only supports UDMA/33 this may fix a potential problem, full details on site. I can't guarantee that this will help but it's worth checking out.

johnpr98
Webpage http://www.price98.freeserve.co.uk/
Forum http://pub9.ezboard.com/bpyro1394

[Brian Ellis]

Hi!

My experience has shown that the video drive MUST be the secondary master. A slave drive is considerably slower.

As for the mouse click problem, I think it may be due to the CPU pausing the video while it interprets this: I'd guess that this would be quite normal if the resources are all stolen for other things. Have you set vcache at, say, a max of ca. 25% of your RAM (I like a fixed min of the same figure, so that your system knows that it doesn't have to play around with it). Also, your swap file should not be on your C: disk but, preferably, on an ad hoc partition of your D: disk.

------------------
Brian (the terrible)

[DrFaust]

I'll try making the 40 GB the secondary master - the only reason it is the slave is that I have only one spot to put it in my tower (above the other drive).

DMA is enabled for all drives and HDTach reports appropriate numbers. I have specified a fixed swap file size (~200 MB) on my main system drive (C I haven't seen any suggestions on setting the vcache size although I remember doing so long age (before a recent drive reformat). Do you have a link?

dRfAuSt

[Brian Ellis]

Edit your SYSTEM.INI file to include

[vcache]
minfilecache=32743
maxfilecache=32743
chunksize=512

I've found these settings work fine for my system with 98 SE, MSP6 and 128 Mb RAM



------------------
Brian (the terrible)

[DrFaust]

Thanks for the suggestions but it seems that I'm no where closer to getting this thing figured out.

I've tried putting the 40 GB capture drive as secondary master and the only drive. No go.

I've tried fiddling with the swap file (letting windows manage it and specifying as min=max=256MB) still the same. Although not on a different drive than my system drive (C). No difference.

Vcache settings were actually already set to 32768 min, 32768 max, 512 chunksize. I commented them out, still the same problems. I'll try it with your exact numbers (32743) but I'm not too hopefull ;(

I've tried disabling my sound card and attempting captures but it seems that AVI/O doesn't like this and keeps crashing on me. I've been specifying a frame rate of 29.97 in AVI/O but that shouldn't cause the mouse-click to drop frames.

Maybe I have too may programs registered in Win98 or some silly thing like that. I've noticed at times that when browsing for files the system pauses - which I believed was the HD spinning up on the secondary IDE channel. Probably has nothing to do with this. It's probably some esoteric setting in Windows.. <sigh>

dRfAuSt

[Brian Ellis]

Doc

Sounds as if your computer is looking for everlasting youth: only you know how to do that

Are you sure that you don't have an IRQ conflict? You seem to have quite a bit of hardware attached to it.

However, you may have a clue from your last message. It pays to periodically reformat all your disks and re-install everything. It sounds as if your registry has become gigantic and if it's stuffed with rubbish that is never used, then your performance will suffer. Don't believe it that if you uninstall something, all the registry entries are cleared. It just ain't so. The other day, I backed up my registry files before installing a trial programme which I subsequently uninstalled. Thr new registry files totalled about 4 kb more than the backed up one: 4 kb of rubbish. You can imagine how much you accumulate over a couple of years. None of the so-called registry cleaners will remove all this rubbish because a lot of it is encrypted and the cleaners can't work out what it belongs to. Cure: a clean reinstall of Windows.

------------------
Brian (the terrible)

[Tinnes]

I agree. I normally format every month or so. Fixes pretty much everything and your system feels all fresh and clean. It's faster too, untill you start installing all your programs again.


------------------
-------------------------
Get paid to surf http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=MAC649 it really works. Free Money.

[This_Idiot]

First, Hi Dr Faust.

Next, I'm gonna disagree with Brian (I like to live dangerously). I've been running my capture drives as primary slaves for 3 years now and have less frame-drop problems than most people. My secondary is tied up with either a single CD drive or (occasionally) with a CDRom and Burner. I'm more likely to get framedrop from whacky contrast on the incoming signal than HD conflict.

Dr F, you don't say how many frames you are getting dropped. You mention "some every few minutes" and that you are using NTSC - is this another occurrence of the NTSC 30/29.97 fps problem ? (Answers on a postcard please).

I think this thread may inadvertantly have taken a detour up a blind alley.

[DrFaust]

Alrighty,

I was attempting to capture with AVI/O using a framerate of 29.97 fps from an NTSC source (the tv tuner on the Marvel, I also tried it from an s-video input of a vcr). Within the first 2-3 minutes of capture, not doing anything, I'd drop a frame or two. It pretty much follows this pattern.

When I right click on the desktop, I drop anywhere from 0-3 frame as reported by AVI/O.

Additionally, I've tried using PC-VCR which doesn't report dropped frames until the end of the capture This I believe is a 30 fps capture so I'm not really surprised if there are dropped frames.

As for the primary/secondary master/slave isssue, I had seen any improvement in putting the capture drive as a lone master on the secondary port. All my CD-ROM devices are SCSII and the auto-insert notification is off on them.

At this point, I'm pretty much resolved that only a fresh re-install would correct the problem. I'm not relishing this prospect as I had just done so a few months ago! I am assuming that someone with a similar setup to mine is able to capture without dropping frames as I have. Ah well.

dRfAuSt