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Ant
12th December 2001, 08:00
OK lets put a few rumoured specs together for the so called Parhelia the next gen Matrox board, it's gonna be faster than a Geforce 3 and ATi 8500 in 3D and have the usual 2D goodies, 64 to 256M DDR RAM. How much are you willing to lay out and how much memory would you want onboard?

Sasq
12th December 2001, 08:06
Personally I'd go for 64 and no more then 35000yen.

Preferably free as a Matrox giveaway - Haig you listening? :D

Dan

Helevitia
12th December 2001, 08:10
I would lay down $500 for it. As long as it had 64MB I'd be happy but if they had a board with more RAM and tests showed that it actually did some good, I'd buy that instead. 256MB :eek: Not sure what could take advantage of that? <sigh> But if they announce it in Spring then when will they release it? Not that I'm in a hurry at this point. My Radeon is more than enough for all of the games I've thrown at it. It's more on principle than anything else. My biggest worry is that even though the card may kick ass, I hoep they have the engineering resources to give some stable drivers.

Dave

SmellYfeeT
12th December 2001, 08:24
US$400 for 64MB, only specialized programs for specific applications need over 128MB RAM, I am guessing Matrox already has customers that requested that, so they are generalizing their design to cater to the extreme high end, graphic designers! However, I would pay $600 for a Marvel of that card :) it would be a kick ass against 8500DV ;)

does anyone know if the Parhelia can support 2 DVI , like G550?! If it does I might as well buy another Flat Panel rather than a CRT monitor.

GT98
12th December 2001, 08:33
Hmm tough call here:

I would want at least a 64mb verison and if I paid in the 300 to 400 dollar range..well it better kick the living crap out of my current radeon 8500 and the Geforce 3 for that much money....looking at 3dMark scores well over 10K on my current machine that gets 8000 with the R8500. Even though benchmarks aren't everything...make me feel better :D

Scott

Tempest
12th December 2001, 08:49
I've waited long enough... If it is fast, stable, pretty, compatible and has a nice set of features I would buy it for 400€ (euro) - no more than that, though (unless it happens to be in the stores for my birthday :)). If the new card requires a lot of horsepower I might update the rest of my computer first and buy the graphics card after the "hype" part of the price is gone.
Oh yeah, and I'd like 128 megs of memory. For the future, ya know :p
Edit: Yes, I know I might not get the 128 meg version for my 400€...

Torian.cc
12th December 2001, 09:00
Hi Leutz!!

Ich wäre sogar bereit, das auszugeben, was MATROX für die neue Graka verlangt... :eek:
Eine Grenze gibt es für mich da eigentlich nicht. Dann wird eben fleißig gespart.
Denn Grakas wie die G400 waren eigentlich immer ihr Geld wert!

Es sind bestimmt auch einige Andere meiner Meinung. Denn im Gegensatz zu NVidia ist eine Graka für ca. 1.500,- DM ihr Geld auf jeden Fall wert, und bleibt auch dementsprechend lange im Rechner.

MfG
Tori
__________

MATROX RULEZ

efty
12th December 2001, 09:14
I paid 300 for my Marvel G200 3.5 years ago. I would not pay more than that for something equivalent. The ATI 8500DV looks good. I am not a gamer, I don't have a 20" screen(17") but if it proves to be worth it then I may buy, if there is a marvel edition out.

RedRed
12th December 2001, 09:19
eh? whats that, Torian.cc!!!


If I could justify one (which I probably will ;) ), I would spend 250-300GBP, for a 64 MB - 128 mb model... though I would expect it to be scaleable, and with at least 2-3 years life. (I want it to run my VCR, DVD, TV, Monitors X4?(2 dvi, 2 regular!) and make my tea as well (though not raqise case temp by any more than 2deg. C!):o)

I just spent 400GBP on building a whole new PC! (nfarce, 20 GB hd, 256mb ram), and I would hate to spend more than the price of my gaming system on one component!!!

Edit - cant spell!!!

Sasq
12th December 2001, 09:24
RedRed, don't worry about the spelling, I'm an Engrish teacher and I can't speeel either ;)
Dan

Torian.cc
12th December 2001, 09:26
@RedRed

Yeah, you´re right, but it´s better to pay a lot of money for an fast MATROX Graka than for a NVidia Graka, which were released every 3 month.
I hope you understand, what i want to say, ´cause my english isn´t that good, sorry :p

MfG
Tori
__________

MATROX RULEZ

KeiFront
12th December 2001, 09:31
Definatly not more than 500€. Then we can better buy a radeon or geforce.

DentyCracker
12th December 2001, 10:04
I suspect it will come out at US$400 for the 64MB version. Depending on my situation I would be willing to pay US350 (if I'm still in Jamaica) up to 400 quid (if I'm in the UK, and hence earning significantly more than I'd be doing here).

Hati
12th December 2001, 10:08
For the 128MB version about 600(+) Euro, but I would like to see more specs.
Hm.. just ordered a Radeon8500 that should arrive tomorrow.
I wonder how long I will use it in my primary PC;)
I hope Matrox will spread more infos on the new chip soon!
Hati

Maggi
12th December 2001, 11:55
Kick me, but I'd go for the 256 megger, but only if it supports reverse AGP, ie. in case your regular RAM runs out of space, unused GFX RAM could be shared with the system at AGP8x transfer rates ... :D

Now that would be cool and I'd spend up to 1000€ for such a beast.

But seriously, I'd love if Matrox stayed competitive, ie. whatever comparable card is out there, the card from Matrox should not be priced a lot above, but certainly I'm willing to donate an extra buck or two for outstanding quality and features.

:)

Michel
12th December 2001, 12:28
Originally posted by Maggi
Kick me, but I'd go for the 256 megger, but only if it supports reverse AGP, ie. in case your regular RAM runs out of space, unused GFX RAM could be shared with the system at AGP8x transfer rates ... :D

You forgot the ability to make an ram drive out of the graphics memory :D

I would pay up to € 750 for an 256 megger if it has matrox quality and record breaking speed.

efty
12th December 2001, 12:33
I am assuming that matrox is not using XBA. There was a comment of matrox guy at an interview about using a 256 bus mem interface. Can someone extrapolate on that one.

I would say that the 256 mb ram model is a dual one. This would help explain the pin count on the chip and the memory onboard. 128mb for each chip. Also it could be possible that the 64bit bus line of the G550 was not a downgrade from the itended g800. It could be used as a cross bar configuration 2*64 to access separate memory modules independetly. Two chips would easily achieve 20gb of memory BW with so sort of hiden surface removal and a cross bar configuration.

What I would like to know more about is if the programable risc TnL processor will be used in this chip. I wonder if the programing will be done on the fly as the application demands certain TnL features. That would be great, much like trasmetas code morphing that adapts to the software requirments and gets faster as the application runs(of course up to a point).

Comment on this :)

Torian.cc
12th December 2001, 13:56
Hola Chikos,

for all of you, waiting for the next 3D Bomb, read this (maybe someone of you, that don´t find this article...).
Articles like this one let my hope grow :p
(grmbl, baaaad english...)
__________________________________________________ __

Matrox Graphics offers support for New World Order

Matrox are proud to offer support for new 3D shooter from Project Three Interactive


Project Three Interactive’s upcoming release, New World Order, got yet another boost today as Matrox explicitly pledged their support for the highly anticipated shooter. The game, being developed by Swedish studio Termite Games, is set for March 2002.

“Matrox Graphics is pleased to be working with Termite Games and Project Three Interactive in insuring that our hardware is fully compatible with New World Order,” says Mike Drummelsmith, developer relations manager, Matrox Graphics. “The visual effects in New World Order are simply stunning and, when paired with Matrox’s trademark image quality, result in an action packed gaming experience.”

“We are, at the moment, rapidly getting to the final stages of development, so now it becomes very important that we sort out which graphics cards suit the game best and guarantee smooth gameplay and great graphics at the same time,” explains Jim Malmros, Termite Games. “With a state of the art graphics card company like Matrox backing us up, we are able to make sure New World Order can show off everything it was designed for.”

“We are extremely pleased that Matrox is supporting us in the way they do,” says Robert Ercevic, CEO Project Three Interactive. “They have been of great assistance and I can’t wait to play the final game on their cards. We anticipate this to be the beginning of a long and fruitful relationship.”

The Matrox Graphics development relations team works with many of the top software developers and publishers to insure compatibility and optimizations for Matrox hardware. Drawing on 25 years of industry experience Matrox Graphics is dedicated to producing top quality graphics accelerators and was the first company to introduce hardware support for Environment-Mapped Bump Mapping with the introduction of the G400 product line in 1999.

__________________________________________________ __

Like it?? And i really hope, this means what we all think.
THERE WILL BE A NEW 3D GRAKA NEXT TIME!!

MfG
Tori
__________

MATROX RULEZ

Ali
12th December 2001, 14:07
Im now hoping they will put the release off a little, Just forked out for this:
http://support.euro.dell.com/docs/monitors/2000fp/English/intro.htm
and need a couple of months to rebuild my 'toy' account. If the G10000 comes out in that time, Ill be miffed!

If the card is fast enough, I have no problem paying twice what a Geforce 3 costs at the time. It all depends on the specs though.

Im not willing to put any price down, as we have no idea what the card can do. If it has eTV type functions, Ill be willing to pay more, of it only has 2 outputs, Ill pay less. If it can play Quake3 at 1600X1200X32 with 8X FSAA at 100fps, Ill probably pay more just for bragging rights (not that you would need FSAA at 1600X1200, or more than your monitors refresh rate, fps wise).

If the memory usage is like a Voodoo5 and 128Mb is only used at 64MB, that would change how much I would be willing to pay for it.

There are so many variables that wont be answered until Ant gets to review one (dont realy trust Anandtech or Tom, although you do have to read them too).

For what Ant discribes above, assuming no extra features, and only DualHead I would pay around US$400-450 the 64MB version.

If it does everything I want and more, Ill pay around US$1000, but I would want something VERY special for that.

Ali

Torian.cc
12th December 2001, 14:11
The most important line in this article for me is

... “Matrox Graphics is pleased to be working with Termite Games and Project Three Interactive in insuring that our hardware is fully compatible with New World Order " ...

Right? ´Cause if you know which effects and technics the grafik engine supports, like :

Full 32bit rendering as default

DVA technology for efficient, exact visibility processing

Efficient graphics/texture compression/decompression, without any quality loss

Multiple graphics processing pipelines, distributable over multiple processors

Renders bezier patches, NURBS surfaces and polygons

Supports hardware T&L for increased throughput

Unique surface technology, blends unlimited number of textures

High quality decal support; decals affect bump mapping and lighting

True bump mapping technology, real-time calculated

True real-time dynamic lighting, no light maps

Full real-time Phong/Blinn and Metal shading

Real-time calculated full quality spectacular highlights

Omni, spots, directional and volumetric light-sources

Dynamic real-time shadows, full quality, sharp or soft

24bit RGB true-color lighting, 48bit internal blends

Light-DVA for fast, exact extraction of light / shadow receivers

Fully dynamic/deformable geometry, no architectural limits

High speed, high quality rendering of blended and skinned geometry

Advanced particle/meta-particle rendering and blending

Skeletal animation with constraints and expressions

Real-time full forward/inverse kinematics

Advanced motion blending / smoothing

Highly sophisticated dynamics subsystems

Full hardware accelerated rendering


Reading things like this make veryveryvery HAPPY, and i think my G400MAX have spend a long and great time in my compi, but now it´s time for a change... MATROX, SHOW US THE NEXT GEN. OF GRAKAS!!

MfG
Tori
__________

MATROX RULEZ

mdhome
12th December 2001, 14:17
Truth is I dont need screaming 3d. Just acceptable 3d with the usuall Matrox quality. At most I would spend about £200. Anything more is a waste as far as im concerned especially as the range of games designed for it havent yet been released ie doom3 and UR2. This could also be the reason for its slow rollout. They will want to make a killing with this card; release it too early and by time the games are available it will be selling for a 3rd less. When the time is right this card is gonna shine (hopefully).


regards MD

RedRed
12th December 2001, 15:35
intresting theory MD... I hope you are right.


Torian.CC
you squeezed a lot of options into two lines of quote!:D ...

It would be nice if it were so, but I dont believe it will...

At the end of the day, you or I will pay what we feel the card is worth.
If it is crap, we will pay peanuts....

If it doesnt outperform an gf3, we wont pay much more than the price of a gf3 at the time of purchase

if its the dogs dangley bits, we will pay a large wad of cash, if only to remain signed up to Matrox Users (rather than NURC or ATIURC (as it stands, I am sure that SISURC will soon be overtaking matrox in performance!:p ))

redred

superfly
12th December 2001, 17:03
mdhome.

While your argument makes sense,the main problem with it is that competitors aren't exactly sitting still either,so if matrox decided to release the card when games actually use the features,it may very well end up facing much stiffer competition later on.

windigo
13th December 2001, 07:17
personally id pay the same price of a gf3 card for 64mb so in canada thats about 500$
id go as high as 600$ but would want something special like hardware mpeg 4 encoding or any video capturing ability:)
but the way my budget is going tho they would have to release a 32mb version and 250$ would be my price :)

borat
16th December 2001, 04:24
i think that a 256 megger just above the price of what the gf3 was at launch would be reasonable with a few lower spec cards at launch for around $180-$200 would be nice with the lower spec cards outperforming radeon 7500 and gf2 ti's comfortably. Matrox need to launch a high end power variant alongside an mx type value card to ensure good sales and decent profits.

mdhome
16th December 2001, 06:15
A Matrox MX type card is something that I want. Superb 2d, dual head and reasonable 3d and a reasonable price. Unfortunately I want it now, I am in need of ditching my POS Radeon card . If I have to pay £300 for a vid card then I might end up buying an XBOX instead.



regards MD

superfly
16th December 2001, 10:05
While it's true that memory prices have dropped a lot over the last few months,i somehow don't see anyone integrating 256 megs into a video card anytime soon...

For one,the need for that much memory would only be necessary when cards start supporting 64 bit color because of the huge frame buffer a 64 bit color pallete it would require.


ex: a 1024*768 64 bit image requires about 40 megs of memory and since games use either a double or even triple image buffers,it would require anywhere between 80 and 120 megs of memory to store it....you can imagine just how much more would be needed if we talk about resolutions like 1280*1024 or even 1600*1200 64 bit.......Owwwwww.....:D.

Then it's also worth noting that to have any particular game running at 60 fps,it would already consume about 2.8 gig/sec of memory bandwith just for the frame buffer itself at 1024*768 64bit(way worse at higher res,of course),which is way too much for any currently available memory tech,and that's not taking into consideration things like texture bandwith and vertex needs as well as the fact that anti-aliasing method used also requires memory bandwith too.

Theres also the fact that memory density on memory modules themselves aren't high enough to pack 256 megs of memory in just 4 chips,especially when it comes to high speed DDR sdram running in excess of 300 mhz,something that would be usefull to keep the cards cost down.

K6-III
16th December 2001, 15:18
Cummon matrox, the KyroII just doesn't cut it @1600x1200 in 2D. I'll continue to wait, but not for too long.

DukeP
17th December 2001, 00:50
I think I would spend upwards of 450$.
If the card costs 300$, I will buy it the moment it is released.. More than that, and I would have to rearrange my savings. Then I would prob buy it after a few months. But then again, I bought the g400max directly from Matrox, and spent half an eternity waiting on it to be delivered!!

Personally Im in need of a 3d card that approaches gforce 2pro speeds. Since I run my monitor in 1600x1200, im dying for better 2d than what my gforce is capable of.

~~DukeP~~

K6-III
17th December 2001, 11:48
My source tells me to expect Geforce3 speed.

Nappe1
17th December 2001, 15:25
I am expecting speed of GF3/Radeon 8500 for CHIP!

Based on the Haig comments, I would say that it will have insane memory bandwidth. (basically that means: Matrox next gen will get much more closer to theorical fillrate than it's counter parts. It also means that practically it will be faster... well I could say a lot of faster than GF3.) Something, but not exactly, like Bitboys chip has... and actually I heard some ppl close to matrox talking about 192 GB/s mem. bandwidth, but I didn't believe that... now it seems that my source made it accidentally 10 times wider than it is, but still that 19.2 GB/s would be nice. I also don't believe to 256bit mem interface. it would be just too high cost to manufacture. so eventhough Matrox and Bitboys denies any co-operation, I think they aren't telling the whole truth... there is just too much of common between them...

but alas , it could be just my imagination...

well, who lives will see...

K6-III
17th December 2001, 15:46
Again, reiterated, if Matrox is listening, I eagerly await the next release from Matrox.