Home Theater/Stereo Thread...

[Jammrock]

We haven't had one of these in a while, and I got some questions, so here goes.

1) Coax cabling in houses. I have a friend that just bought a house and needs to rewire the coax for cable TV. The guy who set it up before used low quality splitters and tons of them. My main question is, will buying 'high quality' splitters from someone like Acoustic Research or Monster Cables make a big difference in signal quality and strength? We already have a plan to reduce the number of splitters, but is it worth it to get new quality splitters (a good Monster or A-R only runs $10-$25)? Any other brand/model suggstions for good coax splitters would be appreciated, too.

2) What brand of interconnect/speaker cables do you like to use? I've used Monster and Acoustic Research. They are both good, I just want some other input. But nothing like $50 per meter of speaker cable type of stuff.

3) I'm looking for a good AV reciever for around $500-$700. Suggestions? My lead runners are the Denon AVR-1802 and 2802.

That's about all I have for now. I have my own ideas, but since there are quite a few audio-heads on the forum I thought I'd try and get a few of you to talk and get more opinions

Jammrock

[Maggi]

Yo !

1) yes
2) dunno, still looking for myself
3) I'm targetting that 1802 for myself, since it the perfect entry level and offer ProLogic II



but I also have an eye on a particular Onkyo AVR that has an USB port and comes with certain drivers that let you replace your 5.1 soundcard (digital audio transfer via USB and the receiver does the decoding) ... I'll try to dig that link up.

[Gurm]

You know, I'd watch out for those "USB sound system" external decoders. I've heard that while they're perfectly good for average stuff, lots of games and whatnot just aren't compatible.

- Gurm

P.S. That's just hearsay. Try it for yourself - I'd love to hear a FIRSTHAND account of how well one works.

[Wombat]

There have already been two threads about receivers/systems in the last month or so. One of them was started by me. Check em out.

[Jammrock]

I remember the speaker thread, but I don't remember there being any talk about cabling and recievers. I'll look back at them though.

Jammrock

[Liquid Snake]

Been wondering about this, what's DPL II about anyway?

[DuRaNgO]

LS,
This LINK will fill you in
(pdf)
jim

PS. go with the Onkyo 696 or jump up to the 797 and you'll never look back

Just noticed: Onkyo is donating 100% of the proceeds on their factory reconditioned stuff to the WTF relief fund there is a 787 model in there for $759 usd:
6.1, THX certified, 100 watts high current, multi-room/multi-source capability, upgradable to 7.1, 12vt trigger for lighting , and a lot more

[Wombat]

It's bad when $800 for a receiver sounds like a deal. mmmm, bankruptcy.

[KvHagedorn]

Onkyo and Denon, Onkyo and Denon..

Don't you people ever look anywhere but the internet and Best Buy/Circuit City?

Same opinion when only Monster and Acoustic Research (can we say LOWE'S?) were mentioned..

Alright, coax and splitters need to be of good basic quality, but unless it's wired and amplified right, it's really pointless. If you want to pass HDTV quality signals, everything you use should be rated for 2.2GHz. As for wiring, keep it as simple and direct as possible. If you have 8 TVs in the house, use an 8 way splitter. If you have 3 TVs, use a 3 way splitter. If you split a signal too many times, the levels will drop too much and look like crap. If you are dealing with the cable company, they mean for this to happen. The signal you get into your house will often be attenuated to a certain level depending upon how many TVs you tell them you have set up there. If they charge you per TV, you will probably tell them you only have one, then split it for all your other ones.. this will make the picture look awful, because they have set the gain out at their box for only one TV. Amplifying the signal inside will be of only marginal benefit, though.

You are much better off using an antenna and a satellite dish, to tell the truth. When you get your dish, there are all sorts of people who say they can set one up. Some of them even do it correctly, but you will probably have to pay those people. The guys that support the "free installation" promotions usually try and just get it done as quickly as possible because they are making next to nothing and need to do about 10 per day to get any benefit out of it. When using an Antenna, get a preamp as close to the antenna as possible and use an amplifier only if necessary. If you have 3 TVs or more, you will probably need one. Most amplifiers will give you a fixed amount of gain, and every TV needs a certain amount of gain assigned to it. 3-6db is usually adequate for each television. If you have a large number of splitters and exceedingly long cables, you will lose a lot of gain. If you have 12 cable outlets in the house and use 2 TVs, don't hook up the unused outlets until you need them. If you must do so, though, use caps on the outlets and get a $400 amplifier.

For coax cable, get Belden 2.2GHz rated RG6. It should be sufficient. Quadshielded cable is nice, but only really necessary if you live near any source of transmission. (That includes the ham radio guy next door).

Speaker wire and interconnects: use Tributaries.

For speakers and amplifiers/receivers, go to all the real audio stores and listen. They will usually match prices for chain stores on the same brand/model and give you infinitely better service, so buy from them. If you go to anyplace that is a national chain, you'd better know exactly what you are getting and expect zero from the kid that sells it to you. If you buy it from crooks on the internet because they sell if for a few dollars less, expect never to receive it, or if you do, expect that it will be gray market and have no warranty support. There's no reason to buy from Crutchfield or the like, because the prices are the same as retail chains, and you get even less service. And if UPS screws up your package, you're in for a lot of fun..

If I sound bitter because no one respects my profession, I am. Now you know why those guys in the real audio/video stores are sometimes snobbish when you go in and mention Circuit City brands and such.. You get worse quality for the same price and give your money to some corporate bigwig instead if the small businessman in your own town, and you get shit for service and product knowledge as well. Nothing chaps my hide worse than someone who has bought their stuff elsewhere coming to me asking for help hooking it up or asking how to use it. I just want to beat the living crap out of them for even having the nerve.

[Gurm]

Well KV:

I personally always recommend harman/kardon. But frankly if I can't LISTEN to a system, I'm not gonna BUY it.

As for the Onkyo fans - go give h/k a listen. I like Onkyo as much as the next guy, but...

Also there's Bose... but of course that's expensive and not really general-purpose.

- Gurm

[MultimediaMan]

Jihad!!! (j/k)

I just finished redoing my entire house. I used RG-6 with a total of three 2.2gHz rated one into two passthrough splitters and one one into two terminating splitter at the end of the line throughout the house for a total of 6 drops (one splitter was used for basic routing at the exterior servicebox.): of which only four are used. I used one line exclusively for the Cable modem, while the other was tapped with a passthrough splitter for each of the TV drops. I did this on the recommendations of some cable crews I regularly use at work, and a local cable guy who lives in the neighborhood.

For Speaker Wire I used UL listed Orange Extension Cord...seriously. I can find *No* Difference at all between the 12 gauge AR/Monster/Whatchamacallit you pay upwards of $1-$5/foot for 12 gauge and what you but in rolls of 100' for $5.00 at the hardware store: go figure. If your extension cord is rated for 120/240 Volts at up to 30 amperes, it should be MORE than enough for ANY home amplifier.

I remember reading an article about someone using Extension cord wire and regular 12 Gauge Solid Core wire along with Brand X and Y speaker wire during a blind auditioning test by some "Professional Audiophiles": the Extension cord wire scored at the top of the listeners' tests...boy, were they pissed when they found out.

I also redid the Voice/Data side of the house. 8 Drops of CAT5e, i finally got around to using electrical conduit, keeping the wiring sane. BTW..I used mostly Ortronics TracJack components with zero problems. I redid the phone drops to the office and the living room with some leftover CAT5e. My wife Still can't believe I put a patchpanel in the office...

[fleabus2]

Hi Jammrock:

AUDIO/VIDEO SYSTEM

Receiver:
Denon AVR-3802 DD/DTS ES/ DPL II
7x110W

Speakers:
Fronts - Cerwin-Vega! D-9 (4-8 ohm)
1 x 15"; 2 x 6”; 1 x 1"
Sensitivity 102dB (1W @1m)
Power Handling: 400W

Centre - Paradigm CC-200 (6 ohm)
2 x 5 1/2"; 1 x 3/4"
Sensitivity: 92dB (1W @1m)

Side Surrounds - Cerwin-Vega! E-Series2 E-712
1 x 12”; 1 x 5 ¼”; dome tweeter.
Sensitivity 98dB (2.83V/ 1m)
Power Handling: 300W

Rear Surrounds - Cerwin-Vega! 26 (4-8 ohm)
1 x 12"; 1 x 2.5"
Sensitivity: 96dB (1W @1m)


DVD/CD Player: Denon DVD-2800 progressive scan DVD Player

VCR: JVC HR-S5000U S-VHS

Television: 36" Sony FD Trinitron Wega XBR KV-36XBR400 NTSC


From Computer to Denon 3802:

SB Live full analog audio LINE OUT (LINE IN) + S/PDIF OUT via coax
Matrox G200 Mystique S-Video OUT (my G400Max quit working on my Asus P3B-F but this card will do until I replace it with a G550 (or better) on a new system I am about to build which includes a SB Audigy PlatinumEX (optical digital audio out to the Denon).

I’m very pleased with the Denon. Much better in all respects than the Pioneer 901 Pro-Logic receiver I used before it.
Some find the remote a challenge. I found it took some getting used to as the manual doesn’t describe all of its functions very clearly but I like it. It allows me to tweak the bass and treble controls etc up/down, which the Pioneer wouldn’t do.

I’m sure that some here don’t care for the speakers I use. Tough. My taste, ears, and wallet. I listen mostly to blues, rock and occasionally full symphony or classical organ music. I like all of my music loud but clean. CVs do that very well.
I believe in listening to audio as originally intended. I only use digital surround with movies. I do use DPLII with TV if the audio quality of the station/program is up to it. Letterman is fine in DPLII but I always switch back to 2 channel analog stereo if he brings on a music act. I play all CDs in 2 channel analog stereo. I don’t presume to know better than the musicians, engineers and producers who made them by adding some matrixed surround effects or DSP reverb Hall etc. stuff.
I haven’t tried a sub with the Denon. Since I have 2 15” and 4 12” speakers on the floor, there is nothing “down there” that my speaker array doesn’t easily get so a sub would be a waste.
Since my DVD player is progressive scan (has component OUT) and my TV is HD ready (also has component IN), the Denon’s ability to act as a switcher for component connections is handy.
Denon, by reputation, has quality ‘real world’ power delivery. My speakers are highly efficient and don’t require much power to be very loud so I will likely never really tax the Denon’s ability to deliver its power. It does sound full and clear with everything “there” at very low listening levels. At loud levels I hear no distortion and am sure my ears would be bleeding long before I heard any (but then again, I might also be deaf at that point). I don’t know what the Dynamic Headroom figure would be for this receiver but am sure it would be a high one.
I’m happy with the Denon receiver that I have.

[Jammrock]

Let the games begin!

KvH,

There is ZERO chance that I would ever buy stereo equipment, except cables, from a nation wide chain. The AVR line from Denon is not sold in national chains that I know of. There are 2 incredible local audio delears that I would go to. One is mainly a Denon/Phase Technology dealer, the other is Rotel/B&W (but they have everything from Denon to McIntosh, B&W to Martin Logan and beyond). I know there are people like you who know what the good stuff is, that's why I ask Thanks for the splitter advice! I take it Tributary is a brand name? Never heard of them, I'll do some digging.


As for the reciever, I was mainly looking for other options. I have an OLD (to the tune of 17 years) Denon that NEEDS to be replaced. I know Denon, I like Denon, but I wanted to see what other people liked so I could check those out, too. The main problem is cash. If I had the money I would look into a nice Rotel seperates, or something similar. For $500 I know I can get a decent Denon AVR-1802 that can meet my current needs for home theater. If you have any other brand/model suggestions I would appriciate them.

fleabus2,

The AVR-3802 is out of my price range. I would really like one...but can't afford it. Cerwin-Vega's are nice, my Dad has a set. They sound good, but overall I like Phase Technology's better. They do rock music very well though. My computer and home entertainment systems are in completely different rooms, so no computer to TV for me. Your setup sounds cool. What I REALLY want for my HDTV is a 58" Pioneer widescreen with a Skyworth 1050P Progressive Scan codefree DVD player. The Pioneer has a 15-pin D-sub input and the Skyworth a 15-pin D-sub output =) You can watch any DVD from any region coded in any format in VGA clarity, in widescreen on a crisp Pioneer HDTV. It's beautiful

Jammrock

[KvHagedorn]

Denon and Onkyo really aren't bad stuff at all, but it's all I seem to hear being talked about. Gurm is right, Harmon Kardon is excellent too. The brand we sell is Yamaha. There are two lines of Yamaha though.. one line has white lettering (the good stuff) and one had gold lettering (the mass market stuff). I don't know if there are really as many differences as we experienced, but we have very low failure rates for the main line of Yamaha equipment. It was when we bought a few of the mass market line that we had problems; two out of the four mass market CD changers we got had warped trays. I don't know if there is more quality control going on with the main line (white lettered) stuff, but we almost never have problems with them.

The $500 Receiver in Yamaha's main line is the RX-V620. We have done lots of systems with it and it really is excellent for the price. It does not have ProLogicII, but that's typical. Yamaha generally lags other companies when it comes to new features, but when they do release them, they implement them well. One of the better companies I have discovered for Amps is Sonic Frontiers' Anthem series. They are excellent quality (better than Adcom) for a very reasonable price. A 200wpc x2 amp costs $750 and a 200x5 costs $1500. They have an excellent new preamp/processor for just over $3000 as well. High end made a bit more accessible and inexpensive. They are made in Canada and are a sister company to Paradigm Speakers (also an excellent brand which doesn't cost an arm and a leg.)

Yes, Tributaries sells speaker wires and interconnect cables, primarily through high end audio dealers. They are excellent quality and you can get pretty much any custom length you desire if you special order it. Saw a review where they completely blew away Monster at a lower price. (The interconnects were what was tested..) Check them out.. they are some of the best out there but without getting really ridiculous in price like some cables are.

[Maggi]

Hi KvH,

I had no clue about your knowledge, but it seems you're the person to ask about how to expand my home system ...

I'm mainly targetting the Denon AVR-1802 because of its excellent price/features ratio, ie. I really want PL-II, excellent music playback and I can't afford too many bucks.

If I had the money, I'd go for their flagship or even considered Harman/Kardon and Marantz.

What I have so far is a pair of two way Infinity RS3000 and a quite old but powerfull Kenwood amplifier that also feeds my selfmade 12" subwoofer and the actual stereo sound is very pleasing to me.

Usually I start off doing some virtual investigations (i-net reviews, tests etc.) and then I consult a few local high end HiFi dealers, what made me curious though, was that about every dealer raised his eyebrowse when hearing I had Infinity speakers ...

What I need is a decent center speaker and two full range rear speakers and it looks like B&W will fullfill these needs.
Denon's 1802 is what I want according to features and pricerange, so what would you suggest ?

Thanx,
Maggi