Headline in my local paper today.

[Joel]

"Airstrikes May Violate Holy Month."

My response is, 'Oh well, we are at war you know'.

There is also reports that the Taliban are trying to poison the Humanitrain Food Supplies and then plan on blaming the deaths from it on the US. Why does this not surprise me?

Joel

[ayoub_ibrahim]

Why does this not surprise me?

because it's probably true!

[The PIT]

Yesterday I walked past a stall outside the Students Union saying stop the war Bush and Blair are hypicrics sign the petition.
What a bunch of misguided idoits.

[Dr Mordrid]

Student Unions in general, and the ones at Liberl Arts schools in particular, are not exactly known as repositories of advanced logic or rational thought

Dr. Mordrid

[spoogenet]

What are we accomplishing by bombing Afghanistan?

Perhaps we think we are noble and justified in our actions, however try to put righteousness and patriotism to the side for a moment to look at the grand scheme of things.

We were attacked, attacked by people who felt justified in doing so, much like what we are doing to Afghanistan. While we have much media to report the issues and non-issues, facts and lies right to our homes, not everybody in the world is so fortunate, or unfortunate. Put yourself in the shoes of an Afghan civilian for a moment, and think of what you are seeing and hearing.

On a fine Sunday you walk out of Church only to see a foreign country's warplane fly overhead, the next thing you know your mother and brother are killed by the blast of a bomb that hits nearby while you brush off death this time. After grieving for a while, you go home only to find that your home has also been destroyed in this attack. You are fortunate enough to hear a government spokesperson on the radio (since you don't have a TV), and this person is telling you that Islamic conquerors are attacking your country because they hate non-Islamic people. They are here to crush you and your religion. That is why they bombed your house, that is why they killed your family when coming out of Church on Sunday. This is what you know.

What you don't know could be anyhting. Perhaps your government nuked theirs, or perhaps people from your country and faith flew a plane into a skyscraper in their country. Perhaps perhaps perhaps. But what you know is what you're told....

And based upon what you know, what are you going to do? Chances are you'll hate Islam and the people from the country whose warplane bombed your house and family. You are righteously justified to seek revenge, afterall they came in and killed your family out of hate for you and your religion.

Or at least that's what you know.

So, what are we accomplishing being in Afghanistan?

Regardless of how justified we think we are, we are merely breeding hate. We are causing more people to hate us. We are causing more attacks to be carried out in the near and distant future. That's what we are accomplishing.

We say they started it, they say we started it. At this point, what should matter most is ending it. There are only a couple ways to end a fight. One is by hitting your enemy....you may end the fight if you knock him out, but chances are you'll just get hit back even harder. When dealing with countries and dispersed groups of people who follow the same or similar ideologies, though...it's damn hard to knock them out.

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

b

[RedRed]

I hope you have you asbestoes underpants spoogent - I said something simmilar (though perhaps not a finely put) last week. Got a scorchin!!!

Be careful out there
RedRed

[spoogenet]

Personally, I prefer ceramic boxers, they do a better job holding out the heat and aren't as itchy....not to mention the benefits to my lungs. They're a little stiff, though....

b

[windigo]

reports that the Taliban are trying to poison the Humanitrain Food Supplies and then plan on blaming the deaths from it on the US. Why does this not surprise me?

The propaganda machine is hitting full stride. That info was released by the Pentagon.... eventhough Taliban isnt above that in a guerilla war or above shelling their own positions like what happened in Balkan wars.
Just let the special forces do their thing and eventually Osama will turn up one way or another.
I dont believe what either side has to say about each other under the guise of "unconfirmed reports"

spooge I agree we arent getting much out of the bombing but the US must get at targets to keep the special forces from being targeted.
I wonder if the AC130 is working.... to bad the US has scraped the worthog a machine that was built to go after the targets their hitting now.

[spoogenet]

IIRC the A-10 was designed to destroy armored forces...not training camps, correct me if I'm wrong. But a 70 rnd/sec revolving steel-shredder is only really good for sone thing....armored vehicles.

There are certain targets that aren't such a bad idea to hit, such as AA and SAM sites, radar sites, military airfields, etc. Strictly military targets that tend to be well enough away from civilian targets to be an issue, if one insists upon bombing something in the first place. However there are other targets that aren't really worth the risk.....like those next to military hospitals and UN food storage facilities, to name a couple.

Let's just hope we don't level another Chinese embassy in the meantime.....

Not to mention the fact that we could give credibility to the Taliban if the people see them as justice fighters who are repelling the US infidels.....oh yeah, that would be great. Let's take somebody that nobody likes...and make them popular.

b

[Dr Mordrid]

"IIRC the A-10 was designed to destroy armored forces...not training camps, correct me if I'm wrong. But a 70 rnd/sec revolving steel-shredder is only really good for sone thing....armored vehicles."

So you're telling me that infantry wouldn't succumb to gating guns? Or that such weapons aren't efficient for infantry? The whole idea is that it renders ground cover of almost any kind useless.

That should be news to the winged gunships and the footsoldiers that carry hand-held gating guns in the bush specifically for use against infantry. Ever see the beast Jesse Ventura carried in the movie "Predator"? They didn't make that baby up 'ya know.

I for one would love to have my support services have that kind of firepower if my ass were in ground combat.

Dr. Mordrid

[Wombat]

Attacking during Ramadan should be avoided, if possible. The Taliban are already trying to portray this as a religious fight, and attacking during Ramadan will just aid them. Muslims traditionally declare ceasefires during Ramadan, and enemies can even walk among one another. If we violate these cultural rules, we risk losing much of our support in the region.

[Indiana]

Wombat, tell me one thing: why should the U.S. care for THEIR cultural rules if they neglect (or even seem to be happy to break) most every cultural rule of the western world?

RATIONALLY, it would be a stupid thing to not avoid the winter if it's possible.

[Dr Mordrid]

CULTURAL RULES? You mean like those that say terrorism against civilians is a no-no?

I say that the rules of engagement are set by the instigator of the conflict. As such there should be NO RULES in this situation.

To hell with Ramadan, especially since Muslims don't seem to have any problem killing each other during their "holy days".

Dr. Mordrid

[RedRed]

There is also reports that the Taliban are trying to poison the Humanitrain Food Supplies and then plan on blaming the deaths from it on the US. Why does this not surprise me?

Joel - that is a bit of pentagon propaganda - shame on you for spreading it!

You will be telling us next that the taliban eat their babies!

(or did I preempt you next post?)

Regards
RedRed

[Wombat]

You're missing my point Doc. Pakistan is already borderline on civil war. The Uzteks are also giving us a boost by letting us launch from their country. These are not US territories, they are sovereign states. If they say "no attacking from here during Ramadan," then that's they way things are. If we decide to go ahead, we may find ourselves punt-kicked out of important locations.