MediaStudio Pro 6.5 & ATI DV Wonder: Report

[Jerry Jones]

You can imagine how strange it might feel to replace a Canopus DV Raptor, which cost us about $400 two years ago, with an OHCI-compliant ATI DV Wonder, which costs all of $49.

http://www.ati.com/na/pages/products/pc/dv_wonder/index.html

But we did just that this morning.

We inserted the ATI DV Wonder board into the PCI slot of our new Dell 1.7Ghz Pentium 4 machine with 512mb of ram.

Windows 2000 immediately recognized the board as an OHCI-compliant device... absolutely no hassles like the ones we've had trying to get DV Raptor's Canopus Smart Play plug-in to recognize the new 6.5 version of Ulead MediaStudio Pro.

The Microsoft DV driver loaded automatically.

I've never seen an easier installation.

We next did what we *never* could do with the Canopus DV Raptor... we opened MediaStudio Pro's *Video Capture* module and used it successfully instead of being forced to use Canopus Raptor Video software for capture purposes.

Capture and device control work flawlessly. It's so nice to be able to use MediaStudio's integrated capture module, which allows one to capture directly to the Video Editor Production Library for easier media management.

So far - I'm astonished by how easy and inexpensive this OHCI compliant board has been.

No wonder Avid has announced there will be no future support for Canopus DV Raptor. With Avid, Ulead, Adobe, Sonic Foundry, MGI all adopting OHCI as their core technology - the future is clear.

Here at my office, we're in the middle of transferring files from my old computer to the new computer.

But when that is finished, I'll be putting the MediaStudio Video Editor to work with DV Wonder-captured files and I'll report on how well timeline playback works.

I have mixed feelings about this experience. The old DV Raptor was a workhorse.

But if further testing proves the ATI board to be a winner, we'll be selling the Canopus board... while we still can.

At home, I'll also be testing the ATI DV wonder with my new motherboard, an Elite Group k7S5a (SiS 735 chipset) and an AMD Athlon 1.4Ghz, 266Mhz chip (Thunderbird core). I'll report on how well that works, too.

JJ

[Jerry Jones]

ATI DV WONDER - MORE FINDINGS
As I explained in the first post in this thread, we removed our Canopus DV Raptor after a very frustrating experience trying to get the Canopus timeline playback plug-in to recognize the new version 6.5 of MediaStudio Pro.

( http://www.ulead.com )

We then made sure we were starting with a newly formatted hard drive and a clean installation of Windows 2000.

My new workstation is a Dell Dimension 8100 with an Intel Pentium 4 1.7Ghz processor and 512mb of ram.

We installed Ulead MediaStudio Pro 6.5, BorisFX, and our Intergraph ViZfx plug-in filters.

(Ulead MediaStudio Pro is compliant with the Adobe Photoshop plug-in specification, too.)

We never had to install *any* plug-in relative to the ATI DV Wonder board.

This board is automatically recognized by Microsoft Windows 2000 (and Windows 98SE, ME) as an "OHCI" or Open Host Controller Interface 1394 device.

Ulead MediaStudio Pro 6.5's Video Capture module has an option to be set to use the "Microsoft DV Device Driver." So that's what we chose.

The ATI DV Wonder has three Firewire ports.

I connected our Sony DCR-VX1000 with the included Firewire cable.

The ATI DV Wonder also includes the consumer software by Ulead (VideoStudio 5.0) - but we chose not to install VideoStudio.

Instead, we purchased and installed the Ulead upgrade to MediaStudio Pro 6.5.

We were entitled to upgrade rights based on the fact our Canopus DV Raptor had originally been bundled with MediaStudio Pro 5.2.

Trust me - the Pentium 4 processor simply ROCKS in MediaStudio Pro 6.5 due to the fact 6.5 is *optimized* to take full advantage of the SSE2 instruction set of the Pentium 4.

The speed of transition rendering is *extremely* impressive. The Pentium 4 cuts through even 3D transitions as a knife cuts through butter. I'll be posting some timed results later.

But it's safe to say Ulead has done a very good job working with Intel on this P4 optimization.

The Instant Playback feature provides REAL TIME previews to the VGA monitor.

Everything is real time:

a. regular filters
b. audio tracks
c. overlays
d. BorisFX transitions/filters
e. VizFX filters
f. Ulead Cool 3D motion animation compositions

(These real time previews do not yet go out to an external TV monitor, but that's said to be coming.)

A side note: People who do use VideoStudio will be happy to know their project files can be read directly in the timeline of MediaStudio Pro 6.5.

On now to the basics:

1. Video Capture

This is simply wonderful.

I can now do what I *never* before could do with Canopus DV Raptor... capture from *within* MediaStudio Pro. MediaStudio Pro is designed to work with the native, generic Microsoft DV 1394 device driver.

Device control is simply flawless.

Batch capture is simply flawless.

When I used the Canopus DV Raptor, I was forced to use the Canopus Raptor Video capture software.

This wasn't a major problem for me, but I realized it was also forcing me to manually move captured files into the MediaStudio Pro Production Library, which was an unnecessary extra step.

So now - when I capture - I can check a box that automatically inserts the captured video files into the MediaStudio Pro Production Library.

Sure enough - I open MediaStudio Pro's Video Editor and the Production Library and the captured clips are already there and organization is a snap. Drag and drop. MediaStudio Pro has a search function and media can be annotated and everything can be easily found.

2. Timeline playback

One can check the INSTANT PLAYBACK option for REAL TIME previews to the VGA monitor.

Or one can deselect INSTANT PLAYBACK and choose PRINT TO TAPE and Smart Render kicks in... unchanged video does not have to be rendered.

Titles, filters, transitions are all rendered (very quickly with this new P4)!

The playback to my Sony DCR-VX1000 is PERFECT.

No "Raptor Video" window pops up for playback as was the case with the Canopus DV Raptor.

The video plays back on *both* the VGA monitor *and* on the external TV monitor.

With the Sony DCR-VX1000's analog outputs connected to a TV set... the playback goes flawlessly to the external monitor.

What's REALLY nice about working with the ATI DV Wonder clips is the fact that scrubbing is now possible *directly* from the MediaStudio Pro timeline.

With the Canopus DV Raptor, I had to first render the timeline or a designated section of the timeline, which triggered the Raptor Video window - making it possible to scrub from Raptor Video using the slider control. It was a bit awkward.

I like the way the ATI DV Wonder works MUCH better.

One can scrub over transitions or filters (or both) directly from the MediaStudio Pro timeline and *instantly* see the "scrub" appear on the external TV monitor!

(If one presses the ALT key, one can scrub audio, too.)

These are major improvements.

Canopus could have written a plug-in to enable direct timeline scrubbing, but apparently did not have the resources.

I'm now sold on generic, built-in Firewire support in Windows.

I've noticed no visual differences so far when it comes to the Microsoft codec vs. the Canopus codec.

(But I have not yet done mult-layer composites.)

Ulead's new Instant Playback feature is also in the Video Paint rotoscoping module that comes with MediaStudio Pro! So animation and video "painting" results can be seen in real time!

A very good source advises that Instant Playback will be continually improved by Ulead...

Version 7.0 of MediaStudio Pro could actually feature REAL TIME to FIREWIRE given the advent of faster processors and the SSE2 instruction set. I was surprised when I heard that.

On the other hand, I've always known software real time was coming. I just didn't expect it to be coming so quickly.

So - MediaStudio Pro and the ATI DV Wonder are clearly my choice over the Canopus DV Raptor.

We'll be selling our DV Raptor if my work continues to be this positive over the next couple of days.

I should also mention:

Not only is Ulead MediaStudio Pro 6.5 the first NLE to be optimized for the Intel Pentium 4 - it's also the first NLE to be optimized for the AMD Athlon processor's 3DNow! instruction set.

I should also mention - in answer to the Premiere 6.0 users:

YES. Premiere 6.0 also works with OHCI compliant DV boards!

The main downsides with Premiere are:

1. No optimized code for Pentium 4 nor Athlon

2. No REAL TIME previews via Instant Playback

One problem I should report - seems to be the fault of my new system, which unknown to me, shipped to us with the dreaded SoundBlaster Live Value card.

At first, I was hearing some chirping noises in some DV files rendered from the timeline... but I did some adjustment of the acceleration slider and now everything seems to be working.

[Dr Mordrid]

Told you it would be cool

Dr. Mordrid

[AndrewDV]

Hello,

I am researching DV cards right now. Can you relate how the ATI DV Wonder compares to others? I hear a lot of users of the Pyro are content.

On a side note, the upcoming Radeon DV 8500 looks impressive. I'm wondering if all of the marketing material is going to be truthful.

Thank you

[Jerry Jones]

The OHCI standard is just that... a standard.

All OHCI-compliant boards comply and work the same way.

The only differences are in the chips used.

Most of the original OHCI compliant boards... such as ADS Pyro... use the standard Texas Instruments Firewire link and Phy.

The ATI DV Wonder uses the Agere (formerly Lucent) Firewire link and Phy on a single chip. It's the FW323:

http://www.agere.com/1394/1394products.html

I haven't seen the Radeon 8500DV, but it looks pretty nice.

Whatever you do... AVOID THE SOUNDBLASTER LIVE SOUND CARDS at all costs.

They HOG bandwidth and can cause tremendously frustrating problems.

JJ

[wkulecz]

OHCI may be a "standard" but there is no shortage of buggy implimentations.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
Unfortunately, in practice there is. So it goes with "standards".

Most everything can capture (download) from the DV tape. Going back to the camcorder is a little more demanding.

Outputting DV from a 1394 drive back to the DV cam is the real test. If it can't do it, IMHO claims of being "OHCI compliant" are bogus.

I've had bad experiences with "OHCI" chipsets from NEC and Via,
replacing with TI based cards (like the ADS PYro) was the solution.

See if you can borrow a 1394 drive and try sending DV from it back to the camcorder, if it works I'd say you have a good card, if it doesn't you may be happy with it, but claims of OHCI compatability are suspect, and if you keep it you may regret it latter.

--wally.

[Jerry Jones]

Jerrold Jones

The fact is I own an ATI DV Wonder and its timeline playback is flawless using a Pentium 4 Dell Dimension workstation (8100) and 512mb of ram.

Device control is flawless.

Batch capture is flawless.

Here are the OHCI specifications of the ATI DV Wonder's Agere chip. It's a huge document in Adobe Acrobat PDF file format:

http://www.agere.com/1394/docs/PB01087-1.pdf

[wkulecz]

Great, you've tested the "easy" stuff. My buggy NEC and Via based stuff also did these correctly on much lower powered machines. If you are happy, fine.

But don't expect anything beyond an "I told you so" if down the road you find it doesn't work with 1394 drives, DVD burners or whatever. These *should* work but if you don't test them you may not find out about the problems until its too late to return the card.

Do what makes you happy, but don't delude yourself because some "standards" compatability is claimed that you can expect everything to work. Both the Via and NEC 1394 drivers lable themselves OHCI 1394 in device manager, would they lie? I'm telling you, based on my experience, if you ignore 1394 drive compatability now you may be sorry later, maybe not, I hope.

As I said, timeline playback to the DV cam from a 1394 drive is what seperates the men from the boys right now as far as 1394 OHCI compatability is concerned.

--wally.

[Jerry Jones]

Jerrold Jones

ATI claims the DV Wonder will work with Firewire hard drives, Firewire DVD drives, etc.

In fact - there's a picture on the cover of the box of all these devices as possible connections.

I haven't tried connecting to a Firewire drive, yet.

But I have a great deal of confidence this card will work.

On the other hand, the GREAT BEAUTY of OHCI cards is THEY'RE CHEAP!!

So even if it doesn't work for hard drives, I can simply buy a Pyro or a Siig... I've seen the Pyro going on the net for under $50!!

[Dr Mordrid]

Yup, and if you aren't already elegible for an MSPro upgrade you can get the Pyro with MSPro 6 SE bundled.

This makes you elegible for the MSPro 6.5 update at a heavy discount.

Dr. Mordrid

[Jerry Jones]

More evidence the ATI DV Wonder would work for hard drives is found on the following Web site, which confirms the Maxtor Firewire card features the same FW323 Agere chip (formerly Lucent).

I doubt Maxtor would sell a board with that chipset if it didn't work for hard drives.

But the Web site also confirms Wally's mention of NEC and Via being on the problem lists:

http://thetechnozone.com/videobuyersguide/capturecards/IEEE1394cards.html

[Dr Mordrid]

I've seen several such warnings about those chips in my online travels. I guess mainboard chipsets aren't the only thing VIA can screw up

Dr. Mordrid

[wkulecz]

It'd be good news to know someone besides TI is making correctly working OHCI 1394 chips.

Yeah, I'm really down on Via right now. Plugged SanDisk Compact Flash reader into Via USB port for the first time on my wifes ASUS K7M. PnP installed everything and it worked fine. Rebooted next day and USBSTOR driver blue screened. Unplugged SanDisk so nothing is on USB ports and boots fine. Plug it in after booting and it works fine until next cold boot :-(

I've "new" drivers from San Disk and am looking for updates from ASUS.

I'd love to see Intel have a real competitor in chipsets, but I don't see Via being it :-(

--wally.

[Dr Mordrid]

To provide a contrast to Wally's experience;

SanDisk USB CF card reader
Asus P3B-F (Intel 440BX)

NO problems in any OS.

Dr. Mordrid

[wkulecz]

Yup the CF reader had worked fine everywhere I tried it until now, which is my first attempt to actually use a Via USB controller :-(

--wally.