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bugblatt
27th June 2001, 10:47
Ok folks, first I'd like to apologise for bringing this up again. I've just been going through the 'The G550 is here !!!' thread and would like to know if there are some much, and I do mean MUCH, worse posts from sirhardi and bacon that have been deleted?

If not then I'm sorry Joel but Greebe is clearly in the wrong here, his posts were insulting and inflammatory and, whatever he says, they WERE personal. The ones to bacon seem particularly harsh as he was trying to get Greebe to lay off. And where does he get off implying that the opinions of mini-murcers are worthless? He tried to take it back later but I feel insulted that you have a moderator coming out with this stuff.

Greebe seems to be the most immoderate moderator I've ever seen on any forum (admittedly I'm only going by this thread). If you guys let him continue moderating you're just asking for this to turn into a flaming forum.

BTW do moderators have the ability to edit other people's posts?

Kruzin
27th June 2001, 10:58
If you have a problem, take it up with Greebe privatly, or deal with Ant. Starting a new whining thread here is about the most immature way to handle it. You claim not to be flaming, or trying to start a flame thread, but that is exactly what you are doing.
At the very least, this should be in the Site Feedback Forum.

And Moderators only have control over the forums they moderate. Yes, they can edit and delete posts, but only in their forum. Greebe does not moderate this forum, nor do I. If I did, this thread would be deleted.

[This message has been edited by Kruzin (edited 27 June 2001).]

Rags
27th June 2001, 10:59
First, It's Ant's decision who moderates and to tell them off if they moderate poorly.

Second, there were a ton of posts that were deleted there.

Third, I don't think Mike was out of line personally.

Fourth, what's wrong with using the feedback forum?

Rags

bugblatt
27th June 2001, 11:53
Somehow I get the feeling that taking it up with Greebe personally wouldn't have much effect, apart from me getting flame e-mails.

I prefer to do things out in the open rather than going behind Greebe's back, and I also think it's worth getting the opinions of other members here, I don't believe mine is the only opinion that counts.

Immature? I put forward a reasoned and measured complaint and you resort to name-calling. Who's immature here? I understand you want to defend your mate but personal attacks from another moderator are hardly helping.

You're right, this should have gone in the feedback forum and, had I known of it, I would certainly have put it there. Feel free to have it moved there. At least I was considerate enough to take it out of the main thread.

Kruzin, you'd delete this thread? Why? I agree that it should probably be moved to the feedback forum, but deleted? Greebe himself has stated that he was surprised he was asked to moderate and frankly I share his surprise.

I can only go by what I see on the thread right now, and from that I feel stongly that Greebe was way out of line. Even if the other posters insulted him in the deleted posts I wouldn't expect a moderator to post such inflammatory remarks (remarks that insulted a large propertion of your members, whether it was intended or not). Look at what happened to that thread, it degenerated into a flame war.

I'm not a regular poster here, I read the forums quite often but only infrequently feel I have anything extra to contribute (and no jibes please). Therefore I don't expect any of you to give a flying fig what I think. However, if we find that a number of members agree with me then perhaps you should make Ant aware of the problem. If no-one else can be bothered to say anything then forget about it.

Personally I don't want to take part in a forum where the moderators are allowed to treat people like that. I take the point that Greebe is not a moderator in this forum and therefore is unable to remove posts he doesn't like etc (unless he gets one of his mates to do it for him), I wasn't aware of that. Can you tell me on which forums he moderates?

Topha
27th June 2001, 12:10
going behind greebes back would be if you e-mailed everyone else, not if you e-mailed greebe http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

cjolley
27th June 2001, 12:12
bugblatt,
The "Site Feedback Forum" is moderated by Ant himself.
Why is this post here?
chuck

Kruzin
27th June 2001, 12:19
Kruzin, you'd delete this thread? Why?"

Because this thread is nothing BUT a personal attack. It has no purpose other than to attack Greebe, and promote a flame war. For someone who claims to be so against flames, you are the one trying to stir up trouble.

If you can't see the immaturity in your actions, you're blind.

Greebe
27th June 2001, 12:19
Bug, I have no problem with addressing you openly or in private (I don't spam anyone nor have I ever! and expect the same in return).

There is a thing called the Forum Survival Guide (http://forums.murc.ws/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getannounce&ForumNumber=3&Start=2451510.99&End=2455198&Session=2452088.1736). I have on occasion broken some of these rules myself and have been slapped down by Ant for doing so.

But that doesn't preclude the trivial dribble that spews at times from mini's or MURCers who don't know better(and those whom do). The MURC isn't run like other forums, with their hands off approach to moderating. We take what's said very seriously at times and refuse to lamely sit by the sidelines and watch it continue.

To say you're basing your opinion of me on a single (grossly edited) thread is absolutely pathetic and this thread is nothing more than an attempt to flame me, well after all is said and done.

Your comment that I possibly got a friend to edit and or delete posts in that thread is sad, grossly mistaken and rediculous speculation on your part. The only person whom could have done so is Ant, our host and owner of the MURC, which BTW was on a business trip to the states last week when this all occured if you had been paying any attention. Nobody (except for possibly his family) was in contact with him during this time.

If you have a real problem with any Moderator on this site, take it to Site Feedback or contact the individual directly or take it to Ant.

Lastly, if you don't wish to continue on the forum, there is nothing holding you back from leaving. But I would ask this of you, go and read how much I do contribute, get to know me first before making sad comments like above. Even those I've flamed in the past, get help from me whether they like it or not.

I'm not as evil as you (and those I flamed last week) may think.

Have a nice day http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

bugblatt
27th June 2001, 13:25
Ok, let's take these in order:

Topha: E-mailing Ant would have been going behind his back. I'd already explained why I didn't e-mail Greebe.

cjolley: Please read my previous post. I know it's a biggun but the answer to your question is in there.

Kruzin: This is not intended as a personal attack, it is intended to highlight what I see as a problem on your forums. I'm sorry that some of you guys are unable to take honest criticism.

Greebe: I understand that it can get frustrating seeing yet another member moan about how naff the G550 is, but let's face it that's basically what that entire thread was about. You turned that thread into a flame war (or if someone else started flaming in a post I can't see then you at least continued it).

I've made it very clear in both of my posts that I can only go by what I can see in the thread as it stands. However, regardless of the content of posts I can't see your posts were inflammatory and personally insulting.

moderator \Mod"er*a`tor\, n. [L.: cf. F. mod['e]rateur.] 1. One who, or that which, moderates, restrains, or pacifies

Do you see my point? Ok, you're not a moderator in this forum. I wasn't aware of that when I started this thread. It's a shame the forum shows you as a moderator when you're not.

You've misread my post, I didn't suggest that you'd edited or deleted posts. I was raising the question of whether or not you could do it. If someone has a gun you think twice about hitting them with a two-by-four regardless of whether you think they're likely to use it. Ok, that's an extreme example but you get the point. And there's always the thought that you could probably get my membership deleted, regardless of whether you'd actually do it or not.

BTW how am I supposed to know that Ant is the only person able to moderate in this forum? Paying attention wouldn't help as I was already aware that Ant is away at the moment.

I've already agreed that this should be in the feedback forum.

I don't need to see your previous good work here, what you did on that thread was unbecoming of a moderator and yet you are utterly unrepentant. This suggests that you will quite happily behave the same way again. How helpful you are the rest of the time doesn't, in my opinion, provide a great deal of mitigation.

And you refer to those you've flamed in the past. You've mentioned these before, you seem quite proud of it (do you like being a hard-ass?). The intolerance of moderators gives a forum a bad name and will cause many members to just quietly leave. I'm quite happy to leave, but I believe in raising a problem where I believe one exists, otherwise how can anyone put things right? Ok, I'm not a typical Englishman http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

One question; Do you flame members in forums that you moderate or only in the others?

Evil? No, and you're no worse than many other posters. I guess I just expect better from a moderator.

You have a nice day too, missing you already http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

p.s. Dont worry, as soon as the Radeon II comes out I'll have no reason to hang around here anyway http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Topha
27th June 2001, 13:59
just wait till you see the g800
http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

bugblatt
27th June 2001, 14:04
Careful, this is in danger of becoming relevant to this forum http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Greebe
27th June 2001, 14:19
I'm a moderator of only one forum and as such can speak my mind just as anyone else does in anyother forum otherwise.

Don't have a clue as to whom is the moderator? That's easy, at the top of each forum, under it's title, it says whom moderates it. All you have todo is pay attention.

To the rest of your spiel on how I should behave, it's your opinion and since everyone has one, that doesn't mean you have to be an arse about it. But since you're in the mode that you are, I could care less. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Have a Goodday Mate http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

bugblatt
27th June 2001, 14:48
So there's only one moderator per forum? Ok, fair enough. I don't run these things and don't really care how they work. But what impression do you think people get of the forums when they see moderators laying into people like that? They probably don't know that you're only the moderator on a different forum any more than I did. They see you as a representative of MURC.

I've made it clear all along that I'm only voicing my opinion. I don't recall being an arse about it, perhaps you can explain your remark? I've had some experience of flaming, I don't start them but I'm pretty good at finishing them. I haven't flamed you, in fact I think I've been pretty restrained.

I can see that you'd take this as a personal attack, it'd be difficult not to. However I would have done the same had any other moderator behaved the same way on a forum I frequent. I don't know you from Adam so how can it be personal?

I notice that rather than answer my points you simply dismissed everything I wrote as my 'spiel' and called me an arse.

Have you noticed that the worst thing I've called you is an 'immoderate moderator'? I've not called you names, I've simply criticised the way you behaved in that thread.

Now you're Australian? Oh well, g'day cobber http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Buback
27th June 2001, 14:55
bug, i think you've made a good point here, Although i don't think you know that you made it. you keep saying "i didn't know" and i think that represents alot of the mini Murcers, at least the new ones.
Many mini Murcers are new to the site and don't know much about the climate of these forums. they come in here and start spouting nonsence and insulting the longtime users. others have been lurking for years and have something usefull to add.

in general, the a**holes are weeded out before they become Murcers, so you are more likely to see inflamatory posts from mini murcers.

I can't say i disagree with Greebe. A lot of mini murcers have been jackasses.

buback
ps I am a mini myself and proud :-]

[This message has been edited by Buback (edited 27 June 2001).]

Alec
27th June 2001, 14:57
Unfortunately, some forums are more democratic than others...

Instead of this thread being locked because of people insulting each other, it would be nice if you all leave it as it is, as it seems itīs going nowhere.

Topha
27th June 2001, 15:01
as for greebe insulting all mini-murcers, i didnt take the statement like that. he said "mini-murcers are telling us..." not "all/the/those mini-murcers..."

and then i have to say that some people seem to take things here too serious, its just typing, you cant see the peoples faces, so its hard to judge whether they mean what they are saying, or how they mean it.
it would be best if everyone assumed that everyone else is not quite when he/she says something that could be considered flaming/insulting etc...

edit: although in some cases this approach may be too pacifistic http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Topha (edited 27 June 2001).]

Greebe
27th June 2001, 15:14
LOL what a fool! http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Topha
27th June 2001, 15:19
me?

Joel
27th June 2001, 15:25
Damn why does it seem that this thread sounds so familiar, but I think the last time I saw something like this I was the moderator that was on trial.

As one of the three oldest members of this forum I have to say bugblatt that you are way out of line here. Just because we are moderators doesn't mean we have to sit back and take crap from ppl like you. Ant is the Administrator of these forums. He has chosen the moderators and as such if you have a problem with one of us then you need to take this up with Ant himself instead of dumping your garbage in these forums trying to start a flame war.

Better get your seat cushions ready I hear the boots a coming. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif

Joel

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 27 June 2001).]

Rags
27th June 2001, 15:40
You ever hear of the saying "Don't air your laundry in public."?

You say you wanna discusss something with mike, then you go on to say that you wanna get other people's input, well this isn't a public opinion poll. Go read the survival guide and suck it up.

Rags

Kruzin
27th June 2001, 15:52
"Kruzin: This is not intended as a personal attack, it is intended to highlight what I see as a problem on your forums."

When you single out one person by adressing a thread specifically to that person, then in that thread insult and berate them (which you did with your content, even though you where careful not to blatently insult with direct phrases), it is a personal attack.

" I'm sorry that some of you guys are unable to take honest criticism."

Why should we take guff (or in your words "honest criticism") from you? You're nobody here. Long time members like Greebe, Joel, Rags, myself, and hundreds of other regulars have built a good virtual community here. We have been here literally for years. Those who are long-time regulars feel this is one of the best forums on the net today. We don't need or want people like you trying to change who we are, and how we run OUR community. If you can't accept that, then go find another forum to post in, where your immense greatness is wanted.

Alec
27th June 2001, 15:58
http://www.atingidos.hpg.com.br/imagens/wattie22.jpg


YEAH, SUCK IT UP!!!

Greebe
27th June 2001, 16:12
No not you Topha, Bugsplat! http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif (Alec you're are freakin nuts! LOL)

omegaRED
27th June 2001, 16:27
Breathe in, breathe out, breathe in .... come on everybody http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
Seth, are you ok ?
I`m peachy, Kate. The world is my oyster.

omegaRED
27th June 2001, 16:37
Bugblatt, just so you know, i`ve had my share of disagreement with some of the long-time members & mods here (Rags, Paulcs, Joel), but except for one generalization which i regret, i did not once insult any of them. It bacame a heated debate and was closed at the end. I still stand by some of my points in that discussion.

But anyhow, Rags was the one person who took the time to help when i had problems with Win2k, and has earned my respect.

Moderators are normal people, just like you and me. They are allowed to get angry if insulted and react in a way that suits them. Just because they are moderators doesnt mean they will or SHOULD take crap from anybody.

------------------
Seth, are you ok ?
I`m peachy, Kate. The world is my oyster.

mbrock
27th June 2001, 17:27
Wasn't everyone a mini at one time :-). I thought this forum was for thoughts about upcoming M products. What is up with all of this blasting? I come here to get info on what is new. This kind of string belongs in some news group or something. Everyone has a right to agree or disagree. Can everyone just laugh this off and forget about it.

Come on Everyone SMILE and shake hands. (No hand buzzers alowed)