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WaR-ped
2nd May 2001, 00:27
Am I the only one in this forum that has decided that this "g550" that is "coming out this summer" is not the type of card that was wanted, and as a result, will not make the purchase?

Somehow, I have come to the conclusion that I have no way of justifying the cost(im sure more than $200USD) of purchasing a new video card that will only outperform my present video card marginally. somehow I dont see the advantage to adding features, such as displacement mappig, that will only slow down the card even more.

Whats everyones general thoughts on this conclusion? Im not a hardcore gamer, but Id like to be able to get respectable frame rates at 1280x1024 resolution. Im not a hardcore graphics guy, but Id like to be able to render in Pro Engineer without the video card choking. Somehow I dont see this new card being able to fullfill this.

my other option is this http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/redface.gifverclock like there's no tomorrow. Whats the highest clock anyone has ever gotten on their G400MAX? Im out to beat it. Lets see what happens.

Grego
2nd May 2001, 02:11
As long as theres only speculation I for one wont make any decisions - thats all there is to say.

Stringy
2nd May 2001, 02:19
I don't know how you can write off a product even before it's announced, or a spec sheet published.. I usually base any decision on fact and not rumour... to each their own, you know your own needs better than anyone else...

As for the rumoured G550, I'd give it a shot as long as its around the speed of an GF MX2 variant, and isn't prohibitively priced...
All which remains to be seen...
So I wait patiently, the G400DH I have now is purring along happily...


Opinions by,
Craig

------------------
P3-700e cB0 @980Mhz - Watercooled, DangerDen waterblock, Enhiem 1046 pump, 8x6x2 HeaterCore Radiator - Asus P2b Rev. 1.10 /w MSI slocket - 128Mb PC100 - G400 DH 32b SGR - IBM 20Gb 75GXP HDD - InWin A500

Gurm
2nd May 2001, 02:33
If it beats the Kyro2 I have on order in all the _important_ areas, I'll get it. The important areas are as follows:

2D quality
Win2k/SMP stability
3D _QUALITY_ (not speed)
Cool features
3D speed

In that order.

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

Chris B
2nd May 2001, 03:59
hmmm well if the next gen matrox card is gonna produce the same amount of trouble with my VIA chipset mobo, that the G400 did, i“m likely to stick with my MX card for gaming purposes!

cursed be my impatience http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Electric Amish
2nd May 2001, 06:26
Depends on how bad my G400 is sagging by the time the card is available.

amish

WaR-ped
2nd May 2001, 08:06
I still believe that matrox is selling themselves short if they are going to introduce a card that is not the top of the line. despites its lack of performance, the G400Max was competing with the tnt2 ultra when it came out, right?

Well, if this card does come out anytime soon, I dont anticipate myself receiving it with open arms considering that they havent released a "new" card in like 2 years. If it is GF2mx arena, then I woulda expected its release a year ago. I guess I just know they can do better, and im dissapointed they are shooting for something so low.

whatever. we'll see.

Jammrock
2nd May 2001, 09:49
Just because the G550 probably won't be a "GeForce Killer" doesn't mean Matrox doesn't have anything up their sleeves http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif Like the interview said, "...we have over 400 engineers devoted to cutting edge graphics research and we will continue to lead and bring innovative new products to market."

After all, didn't ATi sit dormant in the 'high end 3D' market for several years before they came up with the Readon?

Jammrock

HollyBerri
2nd May 2001, 10:41
I am heartily sick of hearing people "hint" about what Matrox may (or may not) have "up their sleeves".

It's not even a "hint". Some cryptic info would be a "hint". This continual data-free mumbo-jumbo is practically an open invitation to visit la-la land for a nice vacation.

I actually do suspect that there's something hugely cool "in the works", but[list=1] if it was even remotely near completion they could/would leak something; if the design spec was stable enough to believe that it could be viably produced at some point, they could/would leak something; My experience with Matrox's cautious nature doesn't encourage me to believe that when all they will "hint" at is "We're working on something really really cool" but nothing more, that they're feeling confident of getting this alleged design to market in a reasonable timeframe.[/list=a]

Sorry, Jammrock, I'm just not buying this "hinting" crap.

But then again, so what? It's only a video card, after all.

--------------------------
Holly

dZeus
2nd May 2001, 11:19
Holly, don't you think that people that know anything (under NDA or not) might be a bit wary about hinting too much because it could piss off M ? If Matrox would approve of hinting, they would do it themselves.

And there could be numerous reasons why they don't hint... here are just a few:

- the market situation can change, forcing them to adapt product specs, upsetting people if they leaked info before the changes, because the final product will be different than what people expected
- the product can be delayed because of various reasons, also disappointing people if they got some 'leaked' release date
- they want the least possible info to leak to the competition, giving them an advantage over them because they won't be able to adjust their strategy (or at least try to delay the leaking as long as possible)

and of course there are various other reasons which I didn't think of right now. You might answer: people that hear leaked specs shouldn't complain about any changes made to the specs before product launch, but unfortunately that's not the way it works.

DuRaNgO
2nd May 2001, 11:22
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">hmmm well if the next gen matrox card is gonna produce the same amount of trouble with my VIA chipset mobo, that the G400 did, i“m likely to stick with my MX card for gaming purposes!</font>

You mean like the first Geeforced has with newer via chipsets?

ALBPM
2nd May 2001, 13:01
Right on DuRaNgO!!!! I always thought it was the other way around too....

I always thought it was the trouble Via had with everyones Graphics Cards.


Paul

dZeus
2nd May 2001, 14:26
..... and soundcards.... and ide http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Pace
2nd May 2001, 15:04
....acpi...smp...usb...

Topha
2nd May 2001, 16:10
I dont think the specs published are right, because i dont think matrox would add displacement mapping.
since it pushes up the polygon-count to incredible heights, there would be no sense in adding it to anything slower than a gf2pro, maybe ultra. so i think we either get a "slow" card that can "only" run all games at 1024 32bit without dis. mapping, or we get a fast card that can run all games at least at 800 32bit with dis. mapping.
from what i remember, embm worked smooth at those resolutions when i got my max many months back.
and since there wont be that many games supporting displacement mapping soon, i would even get a "slow" card and wait for the 2002 king of 3d http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif

but it could all be rumours anyway...

Jammrock
2nd May 2001, 16:54
WaR-ped,

The G550 is rumored to be priced in the 'OEM' arena, like the GeFart 2 MX line. The price is rumored to be around $150 USD, not $200+.

As for performance...unless you work for Matrox or are a BB, there's no way of knowing for sure. As long as its 3D performance is on par with a GeFart 2 MX with the QUALITY that I expect from Matrox, I will get it.

Jammrock

------------------
Athlon 650
256 MB PC133 CAS3 from Crucial
87 GB storage from WD & IBM
Matrox G400 (it's not dead yet!)
SB Live! the original full retail, still going strong
Klipsch ProMedia v.2-400, the PC speakers that goes BOOM!
Hope Matrox releases the G800 before rebuild time, becuase the end is near!

DuRaNgO
2nd May 2001, 17:56
...lmnop....

Sisyfos
2nd May 2001, 17:58
...qrstu...

az
2nd May 2001, 18:02
...lol...

AZ

Joel
2nd May 2001, 18:09
...vwxyz... Now I've sang my ABCs next time won't you sing with me.

Joel http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 03 May 2001).]

Liquid Snake
2nd May 2001, 20:17
...dudlmaopmp... http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

CHHAS
2nd May 2001, 21:22
... and a partridge in a peartree ...

Kruzin
2nd May 2001, 22:13
"Am I the only one...."
Who is PUKE sick of all the clueless guesses as to what is to come next from Matrox?

Oh, looky looky....
Gee whiz, golly, goodie...another unqualified speculation thread about another un-announced, un-confirmed, yet-to-be-released phantom card....
Whoopie!

...zzzzzzzz.......

When will you people get the clue??
UNTIL Matrox officially announces a card, you CANNOT guess what will come next.
For months and MONTHS folks made up specs about what was coming after G400, fueled by baseless guesses about some never-announced "g800" card.
They where rewarded with the awesome G450.

People, just stuff it, and wait for a REAL announcement from M. Anything you dont see posted on M's official web site is pure rumor, and deserves ZERO credability.

When Matrox actually makes an OFFICIAL press announcement, you can have a clue.
Until then, dont listen to any BS from 3rd party websites and forums (and yes, this IS a 3rd party forum). The few here who DO know whats coming wont say anything about it....and the ones making up recent rumors don't really know what's up.

So just suck it up and wait...or bail out and get a GeSpot3 or Raedoff card....but for God's sake, stop the pointless speculation and whining over a card that DOES NOT even exist yet....

CHHAS
2nd May 2001, 22:41
But Kruzin, all this speculating is FUN http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif
Besides it gives us something to talk about while we're waiting, and fuels the hopes that Matrox will come out with something sooner rather than later http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Paddy
2nd May 2001, 22:46
Perhaps this type of thread should be posted in TSB in future...I am sure noone wants to wind you up Kruzin...

CHHAS
2nd May 2001, 23:12
Agreed, this really does belong in the soap box until Matrox reveals something.

Hati
2nd May 2001, 23:17
Hello everyone,
reading speculations about upcoming products from matrox is one of the reasons I am visiting this forums. I am aware that it is 'nothing real' until there are official announcements from Matrox. But it's funny indeed !
I don't think it would be better if nobody was interested in future products from Matrox.
Have a good day!
Hati

Maggi
3rd May 2001, 01:07
hmmm ... what about thse mysterious driver entries ?

- G800
- F800

to me these are either:

- fake entries to keep us busy (worked out quite well)
- drivers for upcoming cards called G800 and F800 (they have 'em in there over a very long time frame)
- drivers for TCFKAG800, but they didn't bother to rename 'em until the board gets released (my personal favourite)

IMHO, these entrķes can be taken as a silent, never-will-get-confirmed hint (leak, whatever) that they indeed have something up their sleeves ...

Just my 0.02$
Maggi

Topha
3rd May 2001, 02:55
hey maggi, its on the murc home page, someone hacked the drivers and uploaded the hacked ones to the matrox server http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Topha (edited 03 May 2001).]

CHHAS
3rd May 2001, 05:03
Holy housecoat Batman!

First Render Subject Nude, now this Jello reference! What kind of customers are Matrox catering to ??? http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Jammrock
3rd May 2001, 11:33
That's it, I'm sick of this! I admit, I'm really a Matrox emplyee in the R&D department, here are our plans:

1) The G550 will be 3 times faster than the GeForce 3. We have kept this under wraps so we could surprise the $#!% out of nVidia and ATi. Our new 0.10 micron process will allow us to put 256 MB of eDRAM on the chip, which gives us 10.8 Gb/s of memory bandwidth.

2) The G550 will also sport 'Tri-head' functionallity. You will be able to hook up multiple USB mice and keyboards to your computer and have enough 3D horse power to let 3 people play any game at once in resolutions of 1600x1200x32-bit color @ 100 fps. Vibriant Color 3 will allow pictures to look so crisp that you'll get a hard even when you're not looking at porn (the render subject nude feature is cool, too).

3) The G550 will support every Direct X 8.5 feature (the real reason for the delay), plus some added bonuses (I can't tell you everything). With FSAA 8x enabled you will still be able to play UT at 1600x1200x32-bit at frame rates beyond what your monitor can handle.

4) The G550 will be out on Memorial Day, cause that's the day people will remember the Matrox name forever!

5) The card after that will beat nVidia's wimpy 6 month cycle and be out on October 31...the day nVidia, ATi and whoever makes that wussy Kyro thing, all go to hell where they belong! It will be called the G1000 It will be 10 times faster than the G550 and sport 1 GB eDRAM!!! I can't say much more that this...we put an alpha card into a computer at Pixars lab and it was able to render 600 frames of Monster Inc. in 30 minutes!!!! Take that nVidia!!!!

:P

Jammrock

DuRaNgO
3rd May 2001, 11:34
Jello for the toast of course http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif
jim

rubank
3rd May 2001, 16:56
You can in one of the driver files also read: "Hello Jello Shared Memory" http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif

Isn“t that something to speculate over?

http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif rubank

Technoid
6th May 2001, 10:36
There are no G800, some jojo downloaded the drivers and hacked them and then reloaded them to our servers without us noticing anything at all, until we noticed

Excuse me but it seems strange...

Either the G800 fanatics are more bored than I thought...

Besides I a remember right (wich I don't but thats another problem) these mysterius entries was found in a lot of driver revisions acompanied by g450 entries.

bacon
6th May 2001, 11:02
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">The few here who DO know whats coming wont say anything about it....and the ones making up recent rumors don't really know what's up.</font>

Hey is that some kind of cryptic message Kruzin http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif.

But seriously, and i mean seriously why isn't matrox on this list (http://www.e3daily.com/v21/exhibitor_list/exnamelist.cvn?id=2&sort_letter=m).



[This message has been edited by bacon (edited 06 May 2001).]

Indiana
6th May 2001, 13:31
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by bacon:

But seriously, and i mean seriously why isn't matrox on this list (http://www.e3daily.com/v21/exhibitor_list/exnamelist.cvn?id=2&sort_letter=m).
</font>

Probably the same reason the E3 convention cannot be found on this list (http://www.matrox.com/mga/media_center/events/home.cfm)?

They're just not there.

Anyhow, interesting find, bacon. Up to now I thought they'd have a boot on E3.

Kruzin
6th May 2001, 13:35
Maybe Matrox isn't on that list because that web site is not the official E3 site, and has incomplete info.

If the look on the official E3 site, Matrox IS in fact listed...

http://www.e3expo.com/exhibitors/current_exhibitors.cfm?search=M-P

[This message has been edited by Kruzin (edited 06 May 2001).]

ben2207
6th May 2001, 21:08
Matrox not having a booth at E3?? I must have an appointment on Thursday May 17th at 11am with no one then...

bacon
7th May 2001, 09:26
Can anyone find Matrox on the map (http://www.e3expo.com/exhibitors/images/kentia_new.jpg)

Joel
7th May 2001, 09:38
There still is alot of empty booths yet. How up to date is that map?

Joel

bacon
7th May 2001, 10:54
Okay just got word from Matrox that they will be there, but meetigns will be privately held and by appointment only.

WaR-ped
7th May 2001, 17:16
i wonder if there will be scalpers selling appointment tickets... hehe.. i want one. id give my left monitor for one.

roadie
8th May 2001, 11:37
if matrox is at e3 then they must be going to release somethig then, or announce it the week before, as there is no point in them going so they can show all the game developers and oems a g450 which is useless for games.

(i really have high hopes for e3!!! http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif )

Kruzin
8th May 2001, 16:18
To show something at an expo is different from announcing a product.
After all, for all you know, they may have shown their next card off ad GDC, but not done so publicly, rather behind closed doors, and by NDA'd invitation only...

Muted
8th May 2001, 22:38
i've been told they ran teir tech demo on a Nvidia card ( must be a lie then )

rubank
9th May 2001, 02:41
Muted,
that might be an indication of what will come next:

Matrox buys nVidia!

Muted
9th May 2001, 03:40
let's start a rumor !
(could happen )

but i always tought matrox was about Quality and not ..... what's nvidia ?

Technoid
10th May 2001, 13:35
That would be pure death for nvidian's:

A new chip every other year http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif

And if the picture was ultra sharp at 1600x1200 in 150FPS they would either get motion sicknes or finaly be able to hit something. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/cool.gif

WaR-ped
19th June 2001, 13:44
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by WaR-ped:
Am I the only one in this forum that has decided that this "g550" that is "coming out this summer" is not the type of card that was wanted, and as a result, will not make the purchase?

Somehow, I have come to the conclusion that I have no way of justifying the cost(im sure more than $200USD) of purchasing a new video card that will only outperform my present video card marginally. somehow I dont see the advantage to adding features, such as displacement mappig, that will only slow down the card even more.

Whats everyones general thoughts on this conclusion? Im not a hardcore gamer, but Id like to be able to get respectable frame rates at 1280x1024 resolution. Im not a hardcore graphics guy, but Id like to be able to render in Pro Engineer without the video card choking. Somehow I dont see this new card being able to fullfill this.

my other option is this http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/redface.gifverclock like there's no tomorrow. Whats the highest clock anyone has ever gotten on their G400MAX? Im out to beat it. Lets see what happens. </font>

(side note... its very weird to quote one's self... sorta a deja vu type a thing.. hehe)

I hate being a pessamist. i really do. when i posted my frustration about a month ago, i really hoped i was wrong. Aside from my price estimate, i was right, in my opinion. honestly, i think matrox made a blunder in spending so much time and effot into the product they have announced. its all fluff with no real content.

Here is what one individual said that i have talked with about it:

As far as the card goes, as far as 2d goes it's one of the best.

The problem is that a majority of business users could use a 8 year old ISA vid card at 640x480x60hz and not know they were missing anything.

The 3d on the new card is supposedly better than their old cards, but with their memory bottleneck, it'll probably run like a Geforce2 MX, or worse, so that's a waste.

They wasted R&D money on the headcasting crap. Do they actually expect business people to buy a card for systems on both ends, figure out how to get thier pics converted into the 3d images, get the connection up and running, and then look at lame-o pseudo talking heads. What advantage does this REALLY have over a regular phone conversation? The point of video conferencing is so that you can see the persons gestures and expressions! Also, many video conferencing systems allow you to toss up presentations, which you then talk over... in other words, there are already tons of companies with hardware out there that do it better.

They spent the money to build in a T&L unit that does this ONE thing. If ANYTHING but headcasting is done, the T&L unit is disabled. Duh!!

And finally, it's only partially DirectX 8 compliant, which means the upcoming DirectX 8 games will run like crap on it. (And for those of you who'll use this argument: At least the Geforce 2's have enough memory bandwith that they have SOME hope they'll be able to run em)

I think he is right on the ball in his opinion.

i think that matrox has 3 different markets to shoot for with this card:

1)upgraders such as myself. fat chance! you think im going to spend another 130 bucks on a card that, for all intents and purposes runs the same, but comes with extra software?

2)business folks that are looking into video conferencing.(the quote above comments on this)

3)idiots.

I honestly think the ONLY thing this card has going for it, is the price. They are damn lucky they are able to sell it for their ideal price of around 125 bucks. if they tried for 200 or more, id be surprised if they sold even one to anyone.

if they are shooting for large corporations and places like airports and the stock market computers, then thats fine, but why even bother making a press release when you are trying to impress large businesses? just send them a proposal.

lastly... as a rant... matrox, get off of the "we rule in 2D!" crap. most office people dont run their monitors past 800x600 anyway, and at that resolution, even a geforce card can do that decently. sheesh

is it really that hard to implement more power into the card? no, its not. is it extremely costly to provide 128bit wide DDR bandwidth and to improve the chip yields so that they run at a decent speed? no, its not. if ATI can do, so can you.

its extremely aggravating to know that there is nothing on the market that i want to upgrade to.

if ATI's RADEON 2 gets the same driver improvement from the RADEON as the RADEOn got from its previous card, then it might be a viable option.

i love my matrox card, and the powerdesk features, but when all of a sudden, my bottlenek becomes my video card, there is something wrong with that, and loyalty and features only carry so far. at this rate, my ethernet card will process images faster than my video card.

maybe matrox should get out of the video card business and just make addon cards. they'd probably sell a lot more of them

what id really like to see, is a matrox card that is like the nVidia Quadro2 in performance comparison and market approach, but at this rate, to get something that performse like that, i'll have to wait 5 years, and by then, it'll have some wasted feature like BodyCasting or something

Joel
19th June 2001, 20:02
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">most office people dont run their monitors past 800x600 anyway</font>

I don't know what type of company you work for but at my company of about 1500 in house employees and about 1800 PCs with over half of them running 21" monitors resolutions of 1280x1024 to 1600x1200 are very common. And with our major apps being fairly graphic intensive, image quality is very important to us. And as a tech support person who works with all these PCs I can say without reservation that the machines with the best image quality is the ones with the Matrox brand cards.

Joel

WaR-ped
19th June 2001, 21:40
i dont doubt that Joel... but also coming from the perspective of selling those PCs... i notice that most people dont care about the monitor size. 17" is fine for them, and when i try to tell them about image quality, they dont care... even after I show them the difference(Radeon to Geforce2). "ya, i guess it is a bit nicer. whats the price? ... oh, no, ill take the other one since it costs less"

when refering to "office people" I am refering to the people that use their PCs as typewriters and communications booths. they use MSword, and MS outlook primarily. These people dont notice the advantage that is Matrox, so it is my belief that Matrox is wasting their time by trying to sell to these people with their "headcasting", and "superior image quality".

sirhardi
19th June 2001, 21:53
Hmm,.....is this forum actually read by business people at all ?

My assumption would be that we are definetly the few that are more into xtras and performance, so .in the end, this card really is not for us......
It is a broad consumer oem card, nothing more, who uses it, i dont care, I was hoping to get a bettercard to suit my needs and that has failed all across the board.

Joel
20th June 2001, 08:21
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Hmm,.....is this forum actually read by business people at all ?</font>

I know of several and each and everyone of us has the power to influence the buying decision of our companies when it comes to PCs and the components that go in those machines.

The G550 is perfect for it's targeted market. And for those that think that the G550 is all that Matrox has been working on for the past two years are IMO idiots. Even individuals at Matrox has indicated otherwise as well as several Hardware sites.

Patients.

Joel

Indiana
20th June 2001, 13:30
Sirhardi
maybe you missed my reply in the other thread due to the heavy flaming going on there http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/frown.gif.
But if you want Matrox 2D quality and DualHead and working Overlays on both heads, well that's easy:
Get yourself a G400 (or a MAX, if you can get one http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif), this card CAN do overlays on both heads - you just have to reside with a PD5 driver (favourably the 5.52/5.55 ones)since Matrox for strange reasons disabled this feature in the newer PD6 drivers.

sirhardi
20th June 2001, 13:47
Hey Thanks :-)

I appreciae the heads up here.....would you by chjance know if this applies toi theG450 also , that's the one i got.

sir

Indiana
20th June 2001, 14:00
No, this isn't true for the G450 for two reasons:
1. there are no PD5 drivers for the G450, when the G450 came out, the drivers were already version PD6.x

2. the coincidence of dropping support for this on the whole G4x0 line of cards at roughly the same time the G450 faced up brought up the speculation that by integrating the "second head" (RAMDAC, Maven,...) this functionality was lost. And maybe to easy the pain for tech-support explaining that a newer card has less features than it's predecessor it was disabled for the whole line (simply stupid, yes - if it's true...).

I found this when trying to help a G450 owner with this exact problem. Matrox tech-support, however, simply states that this (no overlay on 2nd head) is just the way it's supposed to work - you know, it's not a bug, it's a feature http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

P.S. The cost-reducing integration on the G450 seems to have had other adverse effects esp. on TV-Out (high CPU-usage, limited resolution/bit-depth even on 32MB models, worse quality).

[This message has been edited by Indiana (edited 20 June 2001).]

sirhardi
20th June 2001, 14:20
Well,....ok.....nothing left to say or hope for at this point.....thanks

Rags
20th June 2001, 17:16
bye!

Rags