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    WASHINGTON (AP) - A divided Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that police can arrest and handcuff people for minor traffic offenses, saying the authority flows naturally from the right to pull someone over.

    The court ruled 5-4 in the case of a Texas woman handcuffed in front of her small children and briefly jailed for failing to wear a seat belt.

    Gail Atwater said the belts were unfastened only to help the family peer out for a distraught 4-year-old's lost toy. A police officer saw her as endangering her children and ordered her to jail.

    "The question is whether the Fourth Amendment forbids a warrantless arrest for a minor criminal offense, such as a misdemeanor seat belt violation punishable only by a fine. We hold that it does not," Justice David H. Souter wrote for the court majority.

    Unpersuaded, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor wrote for the minority that the ruling "cloaks the pointless indignity that Gail Atwater suffered with the mantle of reasonableness."

    The decision could affect any of the nation's 185 million licensed drivers. Texas is one of several states with laws specifically allowing this kind of arrest, and the Supreme Court ruling means that other states could pass similar laws without fear of constitutional problems.

    Although Atwater is white, Steven Shapiro, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union, said he was concerned that police stopping minority drivers through racial profiling would use her case to justify arrests.

    The issue for the court was not whether Officer Bart Turek had the right to stop Atwater in the 1997 incident in Lago Vista, Texas. He did, because with one look at 4-year-old Mackinley's face pressed against the windshield of Atwater's pickup truck, Turek saw a clear violation.

    True enough, Atwater conceded. But she contended Turek did not then have the right to arrest her and place her in a cell for an hour before she posted bail. That was, in effect, a punishment worse than the maximum $50 fine the state could collect for a seat belt violation, and was thus unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment, she said.

    Police officers at the side of a road should not have to figure out where to draw that line, Souter wrote on behalf of himself and an unusual lineup of justices.

    "There is no dispute that Officer Turek had probable cause to believe that Atwater had committed a crime in his presence. She admits that neither she nor her children were wearing seat belts," Souter wrote for the majority.

    "Turek was accordingly authorized (but) not required ... to make a custodial arrest without balancing costs and benefits to determine whether or not Atwater's arrest was in some sense necessary."

    Atwater's arrest was surely embarrassing and may not have been necessary, but it was nonetheless constitutional, Souter wrote. Such cases are rare, and do not merit "development of a new and distinct body of constitutional law," he wrote.

    Souter, normally one of the court's more liberal members, was joined by swing voter Justice Anthony M. Kennedy and the court's three most conservative members: Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist and Justices Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia.

    The court's other traditional swing voter, O'Connor, led the four-member minority.

    The majority ignored the constitutional guarantee against unreasonable search and seizure "in the name of administrative ease," she wrote.

    Atwater was driving her two children home from soccer practice when a prized toy - her son's rubber model of a bat - flew onto the roadside of Dawn Drive.

    The child screamed for her to go back and look, Atwater said.

    Atwater said she allowed her children to unbuckle their seat belts, as she did, so all could crane their necks while she slowly retraced their path.

    There was no other traffic on the road, she said, until Turek's cruiser appeared.

    Turek handcuffed Atwater's wrists behind her back and placed her in a police cruiser. A friend came to pick up Atwater's children while she was taken to a police station. There, police took her mug shot and placed alone in a cell until she posted $310 in bail.

    She later pleaded no contest and paid the $50 fine.

    Atwater and her husband sued the city and the police officer, saying the arrest violated her constitutional rights. The case never went to trial.

    "What happened to Gail is not unusual," her husband, Michael Haas, said after the ruling. "It's happened to a lot of people. We think people are brought up to think police are good and no one wants to believe some incredible story of what happened to Gail."

    The case is Atwater v. Lago Vista, 99-1408.

    Libertarian is still the way to go if we truly want a real change.

    www.lp.org

    ******************************

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  • #2
    Don't you just love this insanity. Well here's another.

    CHICAGO (AP) - Amid growing concern over school violence, a nationwide study has found that bullying affects nearly one of every three U.S. children in sixth through 10th grades. Young students and boys were most likely to be affected.

    The authors say their survey of 15,686 public and private school students is among the first to document the U.S. prevalence of bullying, and the results show that not enough has been done to prevent what is often seen as an unpleasant rite of passage.

    "It's a problem that has been in a lot of ways ignored for quite a while," said researcher Tonja Nansel of the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, the study's lead author.

    The 1998 survey, part of the U.S. contribution to a study of worldwide childhood health and behavior by the World Health Organization, appears in Wednesday's Journal of the American Medical Association.

    Bullying has been implicated in recent school shootings, including the March slayings of two students in Santee, Calif., and the 1999 massacre of 13 by two suicidal students at Colorado's Columbine High School.

    A growing number of schools across the country have adopted bullying intervention programs; the Colorado Legislature is considering a proposal that would require school districts to develop an anti-bullying policy.

    Nansel said such programs have been shown to work in other countries but are untested in the United States, where efforts to address the problem have been hampered by a pervasive attitude "that kids will be kids and this is just going to happen."

    Since nationwide research on bullying is so scarce, the survey doesn't show whether the U.S. prevalence is rising, she said. And while it did not examine criminal behavior, the survey found that fighting was more common among both bullied and bullying children.

    Overall, 30 percent of students in the survey reported occasional or frequent involvement as a victim and/or perpetrator in bullying - defined as verbal or physical behavior designed to disturb someone less powerful.

    More than 16 percent said they'd been bullied at least occasionally during the current school term and 8 percent reported bullying or being bullied at least once weekly.

    Looks or speech were far more frequent targets of bullying than race or religion, the survey found.

    Children who said they were bullied reported more loneliness and difficulty making friends, while those who did the bullying were more likely to have poor grades and to smoke and drink alcohol, the survey found.

    Other research has shown that people who were bullied as children are prone to depression and low self-esteem as adults, and that bullies are more likely to engage in criminal behavior.

    Nansel said the pervasiveness of bullying doesn't mean it should be accepted as inevitable, noting that studies in England and Norway have shown that school-based intervention programs can reduce it by 30 percent to 50 percent.

    Kevin Dwyer, a school psychologist and adviser for the National Mental Health Association, said there is evidence that the incidence of physical fights and violence in schools has actually declined in recent years.

    To reduce bullying, schools need to involve all staff members, parents and even student bystanders, whose silence may suggest tacit approval.

    "People need to recognize that adolescence is not an easy time," he said. "We should prepare for it, which we don't. We treat adolescents as if they're little adults and we request of them to kind of take care of themselves."

    Libertarian is still the way to go if we truly want a real change.

    www.lp.org

    ******************************

    System Specs: AMD XP2000+ @1.68GHz(12.5x133), ASUS A7V133-C, 512MB PC133, Matrox Parhelia 128MB, SB Live! 5.1.
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    • #3
      IMHO laws in the US have gotten WAY out of control over the last decade...I feel privaliged to live in one of the only (if not THE only) US states that doesn't have a manditory helmet law for motorcycle riders (thanks to one of our state reps, who is an avid Harley rider, who even after a life-threatening biking accident 2 years ago, still advocates the right to ride w/o a helmet). I love to ride a bike (in the city) without my helmet. I would hate it if I where required by law to strap on a helmet for a 3-block ride to the corner store. If I am confident enough in my biking abilities to ride w/o a helmet, who the hell is the state to tell me I can't?

      3 years ago, they passed a seatbelt law in my state. And while I do beleive in seatbelts (my car will nor go into gear until my kids are buckled up), I do beleive in the right to make my own decisions. If you prefer not to wear a seatbelt, that is your choice. The law has no place to tell you otherwise.
      These days I do wear a seatbelt everywhere, because I feel the car I own now is safer with a belt. But in my younger days, I can honestly say NOT wearing a seatbelt saved my life, in an older car. I rolled a vehicle (actually several ) in my younger days, and in one of those cases I was not wearing my belt. When the car went over, the roof over the drivers seat was crushed to seat level. I would most certainly not be typing this post if I was wearing my belt. Because I was NOT wearing my belt, I was thrown to the passenger side of the car when it flipped, where the roof was not cushed more than a couple of inches. In some cases (especially in older cars w/o airbags, unibody, and shoulder harnesses), a seatbelt can do more harm than good.
      It should be an individual's choice if he/she wants to wear that belt. Law should not be able to tell you how to think in these kinds of situations.

      The fact that a mother was actually arrested and jailed for not having her belt on at the moment that cop saw her is insane. I hope she sues the city she lives in for the distress it caused her children, for making them watch her cuffed-n-stuffed for something as minor as not wearing a belt. And the cop that did it should also be reprimanded.

      The farther we get into this "new millennium", the more I feel that we need to flush out our entire government, and start over again...

      Back to my beer...
      Core2 Duo E7500 2.93, Asus P5Q Pro Turbo, 4gig 1066 DDR2, 1gig Asus ENGTS250, SB X-Fi Gamer ,WD Caviar Black 1tb, Plextor PX-880SA, Dual Samsung 2494s

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      • #4
        They start to screw with my brew and there's gonna be trouble!
        jim
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        • #5
          "The land of the free.."

          Not quite

          I am thankful for living in a state that has no mandatory helmet use for adults, and we cannot be pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt, but we will get money tacked on to our traffic violation for not wearing a belt, with a penalty for each passenger not wearing a belt.

          I still think it's my damned business if I wear a seat belt or not, and there have been absolutely NO statistics to prove that mandatory seat belt laws have had any positive impact on the Highway Deat rate. In fact, for most states, the death rate has gone up since seatbelt laws were enacted, with the exception of when the nat'l speed limit was lifted, when it went down for all states who raised the limit.

          Rags

          Comment


          • #6
            And it's only going to get worse as the more liberal justices are replaced by Bush with more conservative memebers(who don't seem to understand the letter of the Constitution or don't care). Surely goes againist "We the people". And we are already going to have to watch our backs with Ashcroft in the mix.

            What they did to this woman is IMO "unreasonable" for the so called "crime" commited, and isn't that part of what the 4th admendment is suppose to protect us againist?

            Joel

            [This message has been edited by Joel (edited 25 April 2001).]
            Libertarian is still the way to go if we truly want a real change.

            www.lp.org

            ******************************

            System Specs: AMD XP2000+ @1.68GHz(12.5x133), ASUS A7V133-C, 512MB PC133, Matrox Parhelia 128MB, SB Live! 5.1.
            OS: Windows XP Pro.
            Monitor: Cornerstone c1025 @ 1280x960 @85Hz.

            Comment


            • #7
              The problem is that there are precedents on the books for holding someone in jail if they are reasonably believed to not pay their bond/fine. Innocent until proven guilty has no appeal here, because it's not a fine you pay, it's a bond. The bond is to keep you out of court, it's only a fine if you go to court and are heard before a judge. Now, she cannot be held for a period of time longer than necessary to bring her in front of a judge, but she really can be held. The part that bothers me the most about this is for that violation, she can fight her ticket, but cannot get a trial by her peers for what she is charged with...only because she faces no jail time. Now, if one can be held in jail for the bond, then I say that he/she has a right to get a trial by their peers. But no, instead they have a bench trial in traffic court, where you are usually on the losing end.

              Rags

              Comment


              • #8
                "Land of the free" indeed.. We have a bigger percentage of our people in jail than any other country on earth, and almost half of them are there for non-violent drug offenses. We also put a larger percentage of our people to death than Iran.

                This court decision is just a symptom of a much bigger problem called totalitarianism. It started with the "guilty until proven innocent" nonsense (sobriety checkpoints, mandatory drug screening etc), then it was mandatory minimum jail sentences for minor drug offenses and other crimes, now it's helmet laws and being able to handcuff and incarcerate people for not wearing seatbelts. Here in California because of the "three strikes" law they are releasing murderers and rapists to make room in the jails for bicycle theives.

                I'm about ready to pack it in and move. 'Love it or leave it' as the conservatives say. I guess the idea of trying to change or fix it never occurs to them.

                Comment


                • #9
                  <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I guess the idea of trying to change or fix it never occurs to them.</font>
                  And it will continue to be that way as long as the democrats or the republicians have control of the government. It's time for a change. We have tried it their way and it's not working. It's about time for "we the people" to take back a government that is suppose to be "for the people", "by the people".

                  Joel

                  [This message has been edited by Joel (edited 25 April 2001).]
                  Libertarian is still the way to go if we truly want a real change.

                  www.lp.org

                  ******************************

                  System Specs: AMD XP2000+ @1.68GHz(12.5x133), ASUS A7V133-C, 512MB PC133, Matrox Parhelia 128MB, SB Live! 5.1.
                  OS: Windows XP Pro.
                  Monitor: Cornerstone c1025 @ 1280x960 @85Hz.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rags:
                    ....with the exception of when the nat'l speed limit was lifted, when it went down for all states who raised the limit.
                    </font>
                    Not ALL states. We here in Oklahoma managed to kill ourselves in far greater numbers.
                    Probably from running into the trash we threw on the road.
                    chuck

                    Chuck
                    秋音的爸爸

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      EDIT:

                      It's unfortunate that we have people like bongo who, as Kruzin states in the next post, "feel the need to take what was reasonable discussion and make it personal by insulting an entire country and it's population?"

                      And since this does go against forum policy I have deleted the offending post with a warning to Bongo, and any others who feel the need to do this, that if you continue down this path I will notify Ant who can have you banned.

                      Joel


                      [This message has been edited by Joel (edited 26 April 2001).]

                      [This message has been edited by Joel (edited 27 April 2001).]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Bongo, is there some reason you feel the need to take what was reasonable discussion and make it personal by insulting an entire country and it's population?
                        You should know by now that kind of childish behaivior is not tolerated here.
                        Grow up.

                        [This message has been edited by Kruzin (edited 26 April 2001).]
                        Core2 Duo E7500 2.93, Asus P5Q Pro Turbo, 4gig 1066 DDR2, 1gig Asus ENGTS250, SB X-Fi Gamer ,WD Caviar Black 1tb, Plextor PX-880SA, Dual Samsung 2494s

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                        • #13
                          People like Bongo are the supreme example of what's wrong with the world

                          Rags

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                          • #14
                            I can almost guarantee that this woman gave the cop some attitude or something. The police don't just bounce your head on the hood for minor violations. They don't have time for that. Give the cop some lip and show him some disrespect and you will be spread eagle in a heartbeat.

                            I find this one hard to believe. There has to be more to the story.

                            (The artist formerly known as Kindness!)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No offense Kindness, but this did occur in Texas didn't it?

                              I agree with all of you that people should be given the right to do as they choose as far as wearing seat belts and helmets.

                              But having a four yeard child roaming around the card without a seatbelt does deserve more than a $50 fine.

                              Bet you $100 she won't be letting that happen again.

                              Edit: I included a link to a really nasty picture of a motor cycle accident. I decided I had to remove the because it's really horrible.

                              ------------------




                              [This message has been edited by Strahd (edited 26 April 2001).]
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