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Helevitia
14th January 2001, 13:06
I'm looking forward to the pounding that the Raiders are going to give Baltimore today http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif IF they lose than I'll eat my words but until then, Go Raiders!!!

I'll spare Kruzin and Rags the "I told you so" speech about the broncos http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Dave

Helevitia
14th January 2001, 15:32
uh-oh! 10-0 Ravens http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/frown.gif

Dyre
14th January 2001, 15:45
LoL
i was going to say....
http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Rags
14th January 2001, 15:57
Hey, that's not too bad. The Oakland 1st and goal, and can't do any better than a field goal?

Oh, hey I am sure they can face Baltimore's D http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Rags

Brian R.
14th January 2001, 16:39
13-3, 4th

Rags
14th January 2001, 16:59
You know, there is only one thing better than having the Raiders lose (choke). That is having a Raiders fan eat their words http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif

Rags

Kruzin
14th January 2001, 17:01
Want come sauce for them words Davie?
Perhaps some salt and pepper?

Yummmmmm.

Helevitia
14th January 2001, 17:24
hehe http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif I guess I'm gonna have to eat those words now. Damn! We deserved to lose with that crappy offense we played with today. Man the superbowl was sooo close I could taste it. (sigh) Congrats to the Ravens and Giants.

Dave

paulcs
14th January 2001, 18:02
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rags:
You know, there is only one thing better than having the Raiders lose (choke). That is having a Raiders fan eat their words http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif</font>

Oh yeah. Just wait until Al Davis moves them back to Los Angeles. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Hmmmmm. It appears the worst team ever to get the home field advantage in the playoffs and the worst team ever to go to the NFC Championship game is now the worst team ever to go to the Super Bowl. Go figure. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

FrankDC
14th January 2001, 23:27
Well, the Raiders at least won one prize:

Worst Half-time Show in the History of Football..

paulcs
15th January 2001, 02:06
When I was a boy, I rooted for three teams: the two New York teams and the Oakland Raiders.

These Raiders just aren't the same. Al Davis ("Just win baby.") is relatively quiet. Nobody's shooting fifty. Nobody's covered his entire body with glue. Nobody has a criminal record. I think their dirtiest player is a minister.

The creepiest thing about these Raiders are their makeup wearin' fans. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 15 January 2001).]

Gurm
15th January 2001, 04:14
Are we talking about some kind of sporting event here? I'm pretty confused. Is this the sport where the idiots with no discernable human intelligence pretend to kick things whilst just beating on each other, or the sport where the idiots with no discernable human intelligence throw things at sticks?

- Gurm, who wanted to be in the NFL but wasn't allowed in due to IQ caps.

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

Joel
15th January 2001, 08:55
Well it looks like the Ravens managed to pull another one off with their defense, but will that be enough to win the Superbowl? I don't think so. Why do I say that, because my team the Titans were just there last year mainly because of our defense and we all know what happened. We came up 1 yard short. And that again was a problem for our team this year. The offense not scoring when they had the opportunities too. The Ravens have also had a lot of luck on their side, with just being in the right place at the right time, and the question is, will that luck hold up through the Superbowl. Personally I don't think so. IMO to win the Superbowl the offense will need to find a way to score and with the way they have played so far this year I don't see that happening.

GO GIANTS!!!!

Joel http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Gurm
15th January 2001, 09:46
I think the problem overall is that they gave the WRONG big, dumb guy the ball. Also they should get some fast people. I mean really fast people. I bet you dimes to dollars some sprinters would love those big huge NFL contracts. I mean seriously, you get one Ben Johnson in there, hand him the ball - no, he can't tackle, but NOBODY could catch the man. Kinda like in Forest Gump.

Speaking of which, Forest Gump had about the right brainpower to be in pro sports, huh?

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

Jammrock
16th January 2001, 06:42
Maybe that's why I stopped playing football after my freshman year in college. Now that I think about, the year after I quit football I got straight A's except in English class.

That's just way to freaky. Damn you Gurm for making my point that out!

Jammrock

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Athlon 650
256 MB PC133 CAS3 from Crucial
40 GB storage from WD
Matrox G400 (it's not dead yet!)
SB Live! the original full retail, still going strong
Klipsch ProMedia v.2-400, the PC speakers that goes BOOM!
Hope Matrox releases the G800 before rebuild time, becuase the end is near!

Gurm
16th January 2001, 08:13
It's chemical, Jammrock.

The minute you become even the least bit interested in pro sports, it shaves IQ points off at an alarming rate.

Actual PARTICIPATION in said sports automatically drops you into the "just barely functional" range, between 65 and 85.

Now, becoming a rabid fan may or may not put you into mental retardation (although for some it certainly does) but it 100% renders you totally insane. At times even Schizophrenic.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[This message has been edited by Gurm (edited 16 January 2001).]

Jammrock
16th January 2001, 14:27
That would explain why SOME (meaning not all) Raider fans are biggest unpolite, retarded, stupid, rotten, dirty, crazy, dumb, jerk, @$$holes to ever crawl out the primotial ooze.

I get it now. The shroud of being a defensive lineman for 9 years is finally fading =)

Jammrock

Gurm
16th January 2001, 17:24
It's hardly limited to the Raiders. (Not that I know who the Raiders are, BTW!)

All sports fans are... well... less evolved than non-sports fans. Hehe.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

ALBPM
16th January 2001, 18:17
Let's set team colors aside here....

http://home.att.net/~albpm2/evo.jpg
and strip down to our bare arses....

Helevitia
16th January 2001, 23:29
Hey now! Don't talk shit about the Raiders. As long as you are wearing Silver and Black at the game, everything will be fine http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif I've been to my fair share of Raider games and it's definitely an experience like no other.

This should help some
http://www.blackholefans.com/

Gurm
17th January 2001, 06:52
I'm gonna leave well enough alone. I could think of a dozen jokes about that black hole and where those fans ought to be shoved, as well as the entire NFL, but... I'll be nice.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

Jammrock
17th January 2001, 06:55
You took the word right out of my mouth, Helevitia. Any group of fans that beats, shoots and stabs opposing team fans at the stadium, just because they're not wearing silver and black, are bunch of primates. Even in KC when people wear silver and black to a Chiefs vs. Raiders game we do nothing more than joke around with each other.

Gurm,

Just being a sports fan doesn't mean you lose IQ. I'm not saying it happens, but you can still be intelligent and be a sports fan. Einstein liked basketball, go figure.

Jammrock

Joel
17th January 2001, 07:17
And what about the European soccer fans?

I think somebody needs to get their facts straight. There has been more destruction and mayhem at European Soccer games in the past 10 years, than there has been in the entire history of the NFL. And the love of sports is in no way directly related to an individual's IQ. I think it's just the opposite, that the hatred of sports is directly related to lower IQs due to the lack of understanding of sport and the true sport's fan.

Joel http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Gurm
17th January 2001, 09:58
Ahh see we must draw a distinction between sport, and "sports".

Professional and College athletics in the US and Europe have gotten way out of hand.

I for one am a fan of sport - any real sport. But the NFL isn't sport, it's organized entertainment pandering to the lowest common denominator of intellect. The fact that so many Americans (and others in the world community) waste so much time analyzing, watching, and in general thinking about what essentially boils down to a couple hundred of the dumbest people in the country beating on each other for big bucks is just sad.

The same goes for Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, and to a degree even Soccer (although I'd say Soccer/Football tops the list in Europe and other continents). I for one love watching a good basketball game. But the NBA hasn't been "good" basketball for years now.

The last "good" sporting event I saw was my brother-in-law's high school basketball team playing their rivals from the next town. And even that was verging on the absurd - uniforms costing hundreds of dollars, endorsements from local businesses, and kids promoted to the next grade level despite failing scores clear across the board because they can sink a 3-point shot.

And we must also draw a distinction between fans of a sport and "sports fans". There are plenty of people who LOVE baseball. For whatever reason, they love the game. There are plenty of people who love sports.

But "sports fans", of the variety that would paint their faces, beat up opposing teams' fans, or BET GOOD MONEY on a game that is essentially a toss-up (and it IS a toss-up - no matter what anyone says, in the long run, the big dumb guys manage to screw up roughly as often as they get it right) make me ill.

And watch the news sometime. They give more time to the sports report than they do to world affairs. The average citizen in America can't tell you where Bosnia is on a map (despite the fact that American soldiers lost their lives there!), but they can rattle off a list of statistics (meaningless ones, at that) about sports figures.

Our entire society (and now I'm speaking specifically of America) is geared towards "sports". When I went to school, I chose to play games that I thought I could excel at. I played Tennis, Squash, and went running and biking. But I was somehow a lesser individual than those who played on the football team, despite the fact that we had 20-year olds on our football team. They were still sophomores. Go figure.

Am I a bit angry? Yup. Bitter? You bet. I can't escape the idiocy. Dennis Miller is now a commentator for "Monday Night Football". You know what the saddest thing is? Nobody who watches the show understands anything he says. Maxim magazine joked about it this month, made a drinking game out of it. If you don't get Dennis Miller's jokes, then you really do need to go back to school and FINISH this time. (People for whom English is not a native language are excepted from this category, of course.)

I'll stop now. I could go on for hours and hours, but I'll just stop. I haven't spent this much time thinking about sports since the football team tried to beat me up in high school. Of course, they couldn't catch me (I was a sprinter) and I had the last laugh when I graduated and they didn't. Hmph.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[This message has been edited by Gurm (edited 17 January 2001).]

Jammrock
17th January 2001, 11:12
Gurm,

You must also usderstand that you can be a "sport fan". I love playing and watching football (both US and European kinds), but that doesn't mean I'm a big, dumb guy. Just big. I didn't try beating up the little guys in high school. I was actually the one beating up the football players who picked on the geeks.

I took honors math and science classes every year I was in high school. I graduated with a 3.2 GPA and was on the principal's honor roll for every semester but 3 (damn English and art classes). I even graduated on time...oooooh. So although I am no genius, I am not a stupid jock, even though I played football for 9 years and soccer/football for 6 years previous to that.

I will agree there are some big time nut cases that have IQ less than their neck size, but not everyone.

To some people collect sport facts is a hobby, just as much as knowing hardware stats are to us. Does everyone on MURC get paid to work with computers? No. Then why memorize stats on 500 different computer components and software apps? Some people like doing that.

I enjoy going to Arrowhead stadium in my jeans and Chiefs t-shirt and being part of the roaring crowd. I like getting together with my friends and watching football and basketball games. I also enjoy working with computers. I enjoy learning. I love playing chess. I am a geek, and I like my sports, damn it! Just not to a psycho extent of stabbing the opposing teams fans.

Jammrock

Gurm
17th January 2001, 18:21
Jammrock,

You're the exception. I've seen the others.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

Rags
17th January 2001, 18:59
While we all have had run-ins with the primate jock-type of "people", I don't believe that simply most people who play sports are a)dumb, b)arseholes, or c)the scum of the earth.

Let's face it, sports will bring out the worst in some people, but if it wasn't sports it would be something else. To be honest, I would rather have these fools beat the hell out of one another than have them following me around beating the hell out of me.

As far as sports targeted for the lowest common denominator, well that's true for just about everything in our (and other) country(ies). Have you read the "news" lately? Or watched the 5:00 "news"? Let me ask you this: Have you watched what programming is being force-fed to us right now? Have you seen TV commercials lately?

Why do you think this is? I already know. It's because we are the minority. The general public has become so desensitized to things, that we need have these programs and selective marketing to keep Joe Public interested. Joe Public has become an individual (kind of) who needs passive shock entertainment fed to him on a daily basis to keep his short attention span from allowing him to do something else other than what Bob Intellect wants. You know what I mean by Bob Intellect, he's the guy who pokes fun at Joe Public because he's the lowest common denominator, he's the guy who exploits Joe Public to the point that Joe Public actually becomes dumber. And Bob Intellect laughs all the way to the bank.

Think about it.

BTW, I played basketball for many years, including 2 at a small time college. I don't consider myself a stupid individual, and I feel like, if anything, basketball helped me to stay on track, because it made my body as sound as my mind, you can't have one without the other IMO, but I am not a super competitive sports fanatic; one of those "people" who value winning above all else. I value measurable progress in skill and execution out of both my team and myself. I feel that's what sports should be all about.

Rags



[This message has been edited by Rags (edited 18 January 2001).]

Gurm
18th January 2001, 04:25
I'm not arguing that sports, or even competition, are valueless. Simply that our current system of "sports" is.

When I was in high school (10 years ago, admittedly), you couldn't just "play basketball". You had to PLAY BASKETBALL. PLAY even if it meant never having a day off. PLAY even if it meant never doing your homework. If you didn't PLAY BASKETBALL with every ounce of everything you had, they kicked you off the team and made you "go run track with the rest of the slackers".

That's just indicative of the problem today. I mean, many states have now passed laws prohibiting WINNERS in childrens' athletics. Why on earth would they need such a rule if the situation hadn't gotten TOTALLY out of hand, with parents pushing their kids to win, and coaches chewing out 8-year old girls who weren't defeating the other team (which was full of their friends).

And I know it's a greater endemic in the society. But I also know that if you took all the pro sports, and dropped them in a big pit in the middle of Utah, all the fans would go there and we'd have relatively less violence and hassle in the rest of the country.

As a former resident of Boston, I know that I made it a point NEVER to go out when there was a baseball game over at Fenway. Too many idiots, many of the violent pursuasion, blocking traffic and causing a problem. Paying $20 an hour to park in what was formerly MY spot before they told all of us with parking tags to go find a meter somewhere because the game was more important than our jobs.

And if the Patriots ever do get around to leaving Massachusetts (have they already?) I will praise the day, since it will make traffic on 495 run more smoothly during football season.

*shrug*

I think instead of sports we should just have more wars. It's better for the economy, and it's a more permanent disposal of the idiots. Just my 2 cents.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

Jammrock
18th January 2001, 07:24
Gurm,

Just wanted to make sure you knew there are exceptions to the rule. You sounded as if everyone who plays/ed football was a big dumb jock. I know lots of people like me, but then again, I live in the heartland, so that may just be more comon here.

Jammrock

Gurm
18th January 2001, 08:31
Jammrock:

The difference is are you...

1. A geek/normal guy/whatever who plays football...

or...

2. A football player?

If the answer is 1, that's fine. If the answer is 2, then... umm... put the mouse down gently and stop yelling at the screen!

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

Helevitia
18th January 2001, 09:23
Since Gurm keeps bringing this up...Your answers are the most stereotypical, prejudice answers I've ever heard. And coming from someone who has much more intelligence(some would argue http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif ) than most I am surprised you are saying this. Based on the info you mentioned to Jammrock, you are also implying that all people that use computers at our level is a geek. Jesus people! You can't judge someone's personality just because they are sports players, computer users, accountants, etc...I play sports, go hunting, fix computers and networks, listen to Jewel, have long hair and I'm married to a Mexican. So does that make me some ****ed up inbred geek-country-rock hunting bastard who plays sports and shoots things while listening to folk music? NO! It makes me realize that people are still ignorant.

Dave

Joel
18th January 2001, 10:12
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">And I know it's a greater endemic in the society. But I also know that if you took all the pro sports, and dropped them in a big pit in the middle of Utah, all the fans would go there and we'd have relatively less violence and hassle in the rest of the country.</font>

That has got to be one of your more stupid statements that I have heard in a while. That's like saying that if we ban guns then there would be no more crime.

Joel

Gurm
18th January 2001, 12:27
No no no.

By dropping all the pro sports in Utah, all the seriously deluded fans would go to Utah, and then we could all breathe a bit easier. We could have a TV lineup blessedly free of pre-emption by sporting events, and cities free of stadium gridlock.

I was being sarcastic.

And as for and presumptions I make... I purposely overstate some things. Not all sports fans are horrific troglodytes. All professional football players ARE, however.

And if you've ever sat in front of a large-screen TV, swilling horrid beer and grunting at the screen... and then yelling at the team that made a dumb play (like they don't ALL make dumb plays roughly 50% of the time)... then you really need to find something better to do with your time.

No, not all of us are "geeks". You'll notice I appended "normal person" to that statement. Normal people can play sports. The troglodytic demi-humans that our professional sports instutitions pass off as "athletes" can't be normal people.

In the words of Monty Python:

"When presented with the proposition that all fish live under water, and that all mackerel are fish... she does not conclude, as is logical, that all mackerel live under water."

So, the syllergism (sp?) is that all pro "athletes" are trogs, but not all trogs are pro "athletes". And that liking sports does not make you a dumbass, but excessively liking sports (to the point I have previously detailed) DOES.

*shrug* It's just how I feel. I realise people have strong feelings on the matter. My strong feelings are that if the NFL, NBA, (what is the one for baseball called), NHL, and other "leagues" all just imploded and disappeared, I would be happier. So would roughly 99% of the female population of the world (female sports fans, the few that exist, excepted).

Like I said, it's just my opinion. Take it or leave it. But nobody is a fuller, better, richer, more intelligent person for being an avid sports fan. And in many cases it can be demonstrated that the opposite is entirely true.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

Jammrock
18th January 2001, 13:39
I digress, Gurm. Not all "professional athletes" are trogs, as you put it. I would say many or most are, but not all. I know a couple of pro athletes that are nice, kind, moral, ethical, intelligent and NFL football players. Not many, mind you, but I know a couple.

Think about it. If you had a naturally born 'athletic build' to be an NFL player and the desire to do so, why wouldn't you? You get butt loads of money to stay in shape (unless you're a lineman, then it's more of 'in sumo shape'), play a sport you enjoy and you only work 8-9 months out of the year. If I didn't have back problems and lost my desire to play organized football, I may have ended up as an NFL player (there's always the possibilty).

Many of your points are very valid, but you're assuming way to much. You can't know or should even think that all pro atheltes are stupid, dumb, @$$hole, prick, bastards, because you probably haven't even met 0.1% of them. Do you even know 1% of their names?

I do agree that "sports fans" and many of the "professional sports" are going downhill fast. I used to love watching the NBA. I can't even watch 5 minutes of an NBA game now. They changed their rules just so the most popular teams and players can win. Most of the players act egotistical and seem to play for selfish reasons. How lame.

Baseball bores me to death. I watch soccer/football on occasion. and I love watching some college and pro football events. Does that make me a lesser person? No. It just means I am entertained by some sporting events.

Jammrock

paulcs
18th January 2001, 18:14
Some major college football require that their football players know how to read: Stanford, Cal (Berkeley), Penn State, Notre Dame to name a few. NFL quarterbacks and safeties tend to have above average IQ's.

Track stars have become professional football players. I suspect it was more common when there was no money in track and field. Bob Hayes, the greatest sprinter of his time and maybe all time, played for the Dallas Cowboys.

I can think of several reason why, if given a choice between playing one professional sport or another, football should be last on the list. Football players aren't paid as well as baseball or basketball players. The long term health consequences of playing professional football are very severe. Concussions are, apparently, fare more common than reported. There's a good chance of chronic headaches after your playing days are over. (Ask Joe Montana.) Arthritis during middle age is pretty much a given. Football is a particularly stressful profession as well.

http://ng.csun.edu/e311sp99/NFLdeath1.htm

Better to learn how to hit a curve ball and play baseball.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net