View Full Version : Business Practices (nvidia, rambus, etc.)

16th December 2000, 12:05
I'm starting this thread to discuss the current state of business practices.

"iso, U used up the tech support from me because of your pride in nV's business practice and were reveling in it! I hope
you see the the light before you actually use that business degree, because it's grossly unGODlike, unethical and            
prevertedly sickening!" - Greebe</p>

I agree with what Greebe said, that nVidia's business practice's are to be
frowned upon.  However, these practices are not limited to nVidia. 
Most corporations in the will carry out immoral business practices without
hesitating.  That's the way this "dog eat dog" world works. 
Prey or be preyed upon.  I admire nVidia for the their ruthless business
model that will not take no for an answer.  Every time Matrox or ATI
slip-up, nVidia will be there to turn the slip-up to their advantage.</p>

Don't get me wrong, I love Matrox and the products I've bought from
them.  The problem is that Matrox & ATI have become stagnant. (Intel
also became a little too comfortable with their market position, but it seems
they've felt AMD's push - and have done SOMETHING about it)  nVidia's
recent acquisition of 3dfx shows that nothing can be taken for granted in the
technology sector.  If Matrox/ATI don't respond to nVidia's push, 
they'll be the next acquisitions or chapter 13's. (unless the FTC steps in)</p>

On a more philosophical note, why are immoral business practices admired?
(really deep, you've been warned http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif)</p>

I hypothesize that our world is slowly going to shit. (excuse the
French)  Wars left and right.  Violence becoming a norm. Abortion
becoming more common place. Parents going off to work and sending kids to
daycare.  50% divorce rates.  Kids killing other kids.  Material
possessions becoming our gods.  Corporations (made of people) ruining
thousands of lives (layoffs, takeovers) for the purpose of saving a buck. 
Most people just don't care anymore that society is losing face.</p>

Our society is in a "downward spiral" toward hell.  All our
actions are being justified by reason.  It's pretty sad...  </p>

PS. Took a philosophy class this semester, guess I've been exposed to
analyzing situations too much http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif</p>

[This message has been edited by isochar (edited 16 December 2000).]

16th December 2000, 14:23
if Rambus gets it's way, you'll have a lot more to worry about than a 3D card company.

16th December 2000, 15:39
Maybe things are better than you think.

According to the Centers for Disease Control, abortion rates are in decline and have been for some time.

Violent crime has been in free fall for years. Teenage violent crime has declined sharply as well. There might be a statistical blip upwards recently, but is nothing like it was when the overall violent crime rate peaked in the late-Seventies/early-Eighties.

Having said that, I checked the teenage crime rate figures relatively recently, as I suspected their was no correlation between youth related crime and violent video games. The youth crime rate has gone down every year since the release of Doom. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

The world has never known peace. However, I doubt there has ever been a time in history of Western Civilization when things have been more peaceful. Ever. Western Europe has been at peace for over fifty years! After a couple of thousand years of nearly constant war, that's a remarkable feat. It's certainly unprecedented.

Now, back to philosophy. There is a branch of metaphysics called ontology: the study of the nature of reality. I think the ontologist would ask, "how do events increase when they are decreasing in number? How are things getting worse, when, arguably, they have never been better? Is small big? Is good bad? How much wood can a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? Why can Goofy talk and Pluto can't?" http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 17 December 2000).]

16th December 2000, 17:37
I admire nVidia for the their ruthless business model that will not take no for an answer. Every time Matrox or ATI
slip-up, nVidia will be there to turn the slip-up to their advantage.

"Taking advantage of a slip-up" is not the same thing as a "ruthless business model that will not take no for an answer".

One is business.

One is assault.

As for the world "going to sh*t"... lots of problems with your examples.

"Wars left and right" seem at the moment to be occurring only in smaller countries. War is a bad thing, oh yes, and terrible for the people who experience it, but there's a big difference between the wars we're seeing now and wars between the superpowers, with the threat of global holocaust. So, things are "better" in that respect than they were when I was 5, in 1968.

"Violence becoming a norm". What does that mean? When was the last time you had to shoot or beat anyone in order to carry on your daily life? Violence was a "norm" in the Mad Max movies; most of the real world is able to manage without committing any major violent acts at all. Excepting places at war, of course.

"Abortion becoming more commonplace"...a negative? Well, that's a matter of opinion. Perhaps it represents a growing willingness to sacrifice a personal hope of Heaven and God's favor (if you believe those are related to your actions) for a greater good of not overburdening one's family and community, or the Earth, with the consequences of our "mistakes". Perhaps it represents a step on the road to human maturity.

The rest of your examples are rather heavily West-centric--I might even go so far as to say, U.S.-biased. War aside, are kids killing other kids in India and Sweden and Peru? Are hostile takeovers becoming the norm in Kenya and New Zealand and Greenland? Are material possessions "gods" in China and Japan and Canada?

It's true that the world is interconnected, and if any part of it becomes...deranged...the rest of it will have to go a little crazy as well. But although the world and its creatures are interconnected, they are not all the same, any more than people are the same as trees, though people and trees affect each other constantly.

And "society" is much bigger than any of the cultures that together make it up.

So when these unethical business practices encroach too much on too much of what is precious to people with different ideals, it will be stopped.

One way or another.

The world is a homeostatic system, both physically and socially...it will compensate.

Or we'll all kill each other.



16th December 2000, 20:36
Business practices are about what works, that's it. If you don't lose sales for bad drivers for example then spending a lot of money on developing good ones is a waste of resources. If you can trick the customer into buying something they don't need to keep up with the Jones, that's just good business. If a company were ever to pretend that the average consumer had a clue I'd be shocked and if I were planning on buying any stock in that company I'd change my mind quick. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif The average consumer is a mark with low expectations and values, if people are not willing to complain they they can just grin and bear the consequences. Some consumers buy into the hype so much they actually advocate products on the companies behalf. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif If a business can create a cult following it has it made. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

18th December 2000, 09:58
I hypothesize that our world is slowly going to shit. (excuse the French) Wars left and right. Violence becoming a norm. Abortion becoming more common place. Parents going off to work and sending kids to daycare. 50% divorce rates. Kids killing other kids. Material possessions becoming our gods. Corporations (made of people) ruining thousands of lives (layoffs, takeovers) for the purpose of saving a buck. Most people just don't care anymore that society is losing face.

Obviously you have never taken a history class in your life and have no knowledge whatsoever of the world beyond the time you have lived in it.

I apolgize for such a, um, vociferous statement, but this is exactly the kind of sentiment that arises when people refuse to look at the facts. Look at the USA 50 years ago. Racism was by in large an accepted norm in society. Go Back 150 years. Slavery was an accepted way of making a living. Go back to medieval Europe. If you lived to 40 you were among the extreme minority. You had Royalty on one side claiming you as property and taking large portions of your food and money, and what they didn't the Church would damn you to hell if you didn't give the rest to them.

Go back further to the heyday of the Roman Empire. If you have ever taken a history course that covers this time period you will know exactly what I am talking about. Wars that covered all of Europe, numerous Emporers who were absolutely insane, rampant corruption that makes Clinton look like a angel, adultery, debauchery, drunkenness.

Can you honestly say that the world has not improved since these examples?

I agree with Holly, you are taking a very US-centric view of the matter. There are countries where most of the population is still esentially hunter/gatherer/planter oriented, where the barter system is the only form of currency. Segments of the population who's only knowledge of electricty is through lightning, to say the least of TV's, Computers, Automobiles, and so forth.

The world will grow and mature with time. It's inevitable, or, as Holly so nicely put it, we'll all kill each other.

Myself, I choose to believe that there is a God, and that He does in fact know what He is doing, and that He won't allow that to happen. (and don't confuse the destruction of the Human race with why God allows bad things to happen to good people, I'd really rather not get into that argument right now)

Anyway, thats my not so humble opinion.


Dr Mordrid
18th December 2000, 17:31
"There will be wars and rumors or wars......"

If you start hearing horns blow out of nowhere and see 4 bada** dudes on horseback with swords and black robes just bend over and kiss your a** goodbye.

Dr. Mordrid

[This message has been edited by Dr Mordrid (edited 19 December 2000).]