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Maggi
15th November 2000, 03:36
"The vast majority of our imports come from
outside the country."
....George W. Bush, Jr.

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of
failure."
....George W. Bush, Jr.

"Republicans understand the importance of
bondage between a mother and child."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Welcome to Mrs. Bush, and my fellow astronauts."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Mars is essentially in the same orbit...Mars is somewhat the same
distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen
pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is
water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can
breathe."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 8/11/94

"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history.
I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this
century. I didn't live in this century."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/15/95

"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and
democracy - but that could change."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 5/22/98

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and
that one word is 'to be prepared'."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 12/6/93

"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments
in the future."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"The future will be better tomorrow."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"We're going to have the best educated American people in the
world."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/21/97

"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions
and have a tremendous impact on history."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr. to Sam Donaldson, 8/17/93

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a
firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Public speaking is very easy."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr. to reporters

"I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican"
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going
to the polls."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr

"When I have been asked who caused the
riots and the killing in LA,my answer has been direct & simple:
Who is to blame for the riots? The rioters are to blame.
Who is to blame for the killings? The killers are to blame.
....George W. Bush, Jr.

"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/22/97

"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/5/93

"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our
children."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/18/95

"We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you
on the mistakes we may or may not have made."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the
impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system."
....Governor George W. Bush, Jr.


How come that this goofball was on the election list ?

Cheese,
Maggi

FaRaN
15th November 2000, 03:45
Agreed, but worse:

How come people vote for this goofball?

HedsSpaz
15th November 2000, 06:19
Personally, I take offense to the implication that because Governor Bush has been known to commit malapropisms or otherwise mangle the enlgish language on occasion, that he is somehow unfit to do his job.
I happen to be mildly dyslexic, I tend to mangle the english language fairly regularly, heck, you should see the number of mistakes I am having to correct right now. The point though, is does that somehow make me unfit or unable to do my job? I don't think so.
Whether Governor Bush is dyslexic or not, I don't know. But just becuase he tends to goof up what he is saying occasionaly does not mean he is somehow incapable of being a leader for this country.

Ian

Brian R.
15th November 2000, 06:30
To be fair, the quote: "The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history.
I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century." is attributed to Dan Quayle.

cjolley
15th November 2000, 06:43
Kindness,
Maybe if you add so many half truths that
a person with a job doesn't have time to
answer them all you will win the argument by
default.
Anyone here with time can look up the
internet thing & judge for you're self.
The Right has gotten very good at setting up
half truths as straw men to knock down.

chuck

HedsSpaz
15th November 2000, 06:51
The Right has gotten very good at setting up half truths as straw men to knock down.

And the left has gotten very good at nitpicking about stupid little things like mis-speaking.

Did you read my little rant above? I'm far more concerned with statements that may or may not be lies than I am with statements that are obviously just someone getting toungue tied.

Ian

FaRaN
15th November 2000, 07:04
Hedspez

Doesn't dyslexia have to do with the correct spelling of words, and problems with grammar?
I think dyslexia has nothing to do with making sentences that mostly contradict or that are just dumb.

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."

No grammar or spelling faults in here...
That's not dyslectia, that's just not being able to think an speak at the same time.
If someone can't do this, I think he's not suited for being a president of the USA.




[This message has been edited by FaRaN (edited 15 November 2000).]

HedsSpaz
15th November 2000, 07:43
What dyslexia is or is not was not really the point. The point is, that bashing Governor Bush simply because he has mangled and will probably continue to manlge the Enlglish language, is is absurd. In several of the more publicized clips of him makeing strange statements he has very quickly realized that he goofed and proceeded to correct the statement. He obviously knows what he is talking about, he has a problem articulateing well 100% of the time.

In every case that I know of when Governor Bush has made a malaprop or otherwise unusual statement, he has corrected himself or admitted that he was wrong in his statement. Meanwhile, VP Gore has on numerous occasions tried to justify or make corrections to false statements that he has made. He has very rarely flat out admitted that he was wrong when he spoke.

One of the ways that dyslexia can and does manifest itself, particularly in the exceptionally intelligent, is to not finish speaking a though before moving on to the next thought. I regularly merge seperate thoughts into single sentances when I am speaking. I even do it occasionaly when I am writing/typeing.

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."

First of all, I believe that that is actually a Dan Quayle quote.

No grammar or spelling faults in here...
That's not dyslectia, that's just not being able to think an speak at the same time.

Whether or not it is dyslexia is irrelevant. It is not however a case of not being able to think and speak at the same time. What it is, is someone who is thinking faster than they are they are speaking. I have never seen any evidence that Governor Bush is not an intelligent man, merely that he is not the most articulate speaker in the world.

cjolley
15th November 2000, 08:30
...particularly in the exceptionally intelligent, is to not finish speaking a though before moving on...

I must say...
Did you know that I work with polititians all the t...
Oracle has a very strong dat...
My hobbie is playing quake at....
...I agree
chuck http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Himself
15th November 2000, 10:04
Sounds more like narcolepsy. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

cjolley
15th November 2000, 10:39
Could be.
I'm at work waiting for an SQL script to finish.
zzzzz.......
chuck

Brian R.
15th November 2000, 10:46
Now please someone waste the time to compile all the bullshit Bush has said in his lifetime. Then we'll have an accurate comparison of the two. My take on the politicians in general is that they all lie, and can't be trusted to bait a hook.

Gore? Bush? just say no

impact
15th November 2000, 11:13
I think I got it. Bush just speaks and behaves like if he was stupid but inside him he isn't stupid... Oh.

So, do you think is it better to look stupid or be stupid?

Why?

Imagine that you are stupid, so you don't care about it. But what if you only looked stupid and knew about it?!

That would be complete hell!

Yep, such life would be a misery.

***

Do I look stupid?

You mean like like the Backstreet boys, all dressed up in their shiny robot costumes, singing and thinking they are super cool, but they aren't? Nah...

Thanks.

Unfortunately, I do not remember more, but that episode of Spy Groove was really funny.

dZeus
15th November 2000, 11:20
maybe the reason why we on this side of the pond don't understand why someone would vote for Bush:

A lot of people in the US call Gore a left-wing idiot...

to our standard, he is ultra-conservative. To make this even more clear: the party ni our goverment that we consider very right-wing (called the 'VVD'), would be called communist according to the standards you judge the democrats as a left-wing party. I better not talk about our left-wing parties here, before you think we live in Russia or something http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

I hope you now see why we look so different at the elections in the US. Gore simply is the one with the ideas that come closest to our average political party (but not even close, because our average is way to the left).

Gurm
15th November 2000, 11:58
A thought.

The Gore thing about the Internet... people have said over and over that he didn't really say that, or that he didn't really mean that. In fact, he said he "took the initiative in creating the Internet". He didn't claim to invent it.

I don't care what he claimed. He neither "created" nor "invented" the Internet. Even if he meant (as has been claimed by his supporters) that he created the "public perception" of the Internet - he's still LYING.

Nobody in our congress has done anything except BUTCHER the Internet, except possibly Newt Gingrich (and Lord only knows he's not the best character in the world, but at least he's net savvy).

In fact, congress proposed legislation for speed limits on the "information superhighway". That's how out of touch they are.

Gore can't even check his own e-mail, nevermind "create", "invent" or even contribute to the Internet.

- Gurm

dZeus
15th November 2000, 12:21
you should have seen the Dutch president (called premier, but almost the same), who had to do some kind of formality, by clicking with a mouse on a button somewhere on the desktop on a PC... what he did, was to raise the mouse from the mousepad, and aim it at the screen...

I can't think of someone knowing less about PCs than he does.

Pneumatic
15th November 2000, 13:43
We can all post quotes that seem a little goofy here. You can do that for just about anyone that has a highly public position. In this thread we have shown that both Bush and Gore have said some things that were just plain dumb.

Consider this though. Out of all of the quotes that you have seen in threads or received in e-mail, how many LIES have you seen attributed to Bush? He didn't confess to the drinking thing as soon as I would have liked but he never lied about it either. The fact that someone botches a sentence every now and then (or even frequently) says absolutely nothing about his character. But if a person flat out lies (be it a big lie or a small lie) I think that it is a glimpse into the persons inner core. I have provided a large list of lies here that Gore has tried to pass off. I'm sure that the left can (and has) spin them away from Gore but the sheer volume says to me that Gore is not an honest man.
I'll take an honest man that can't put a sentence together over a man that can eloquently lie any day.

CJolly: If you were implying that I don't have a job, you are SO wrong. I'll compare checkbooks with you any time.


[This message has been edited by Kindness! (edited 15 November 2000).]

cjolley
15th November 2000, 15:34
Kindness,
No, no, of course not!
I meant I had a job & couldn't spend the
time going through you're whole list.
It's just that Gore is such a streight lace
that the claim that he is immoral is silly.
The guy can hardly turn his neck he's so
stiff.
Repeat that stuff all you want, only the
chior is going to believe it.
chuck

quire? I too, have aixelsid. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by cjolley (edited 16 November 2000).]

Joel
15th November 2000, 15:41
http://members.home.net/gilchrist.joel/I'LL_CALL_HIM.jpg

Joel http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Pneumatic
15th November 2000, 16:22
What exactly makes Gore "straight lace"? If you are talking about personally, I do have immense respect for the guy being married for 30 years. He appears to be a good father and if I were at a party with him I'd probably spend some time talking to him. The problem is that I feel that he would do ANYTHING to get into the White House. I don't like the fact that he has vacillated on his positions over the years (tobacco, abortion, ect.). That leads me to believe that he would say anything that he feels the public want to hear just to get into the oval office. If it sounds good, say it. Let the spin doctors sort it out on the back end.

BTW Joel, that's a good one. I already e-mailed it to my friends. LOL http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Kindness! (edited 16 November 2000).]

Pneumatic
15th November 2000, 16:31
Here are a few AlGore-isms to balance it out.

Mary and Joseph were homeless??
"Speaking from my own religious tradition in this Christmas season, 2,000 years ago a homeless woman gave birth to a homeless child in a manger because the inn was full."
Hello! Mary and Joseph were not homeless!
(Sources: Press Conference at HUD, 12/22/97; George Will column, Sunday May 17 1998)

A new type of tree!
Al Gore, giving a speech for Yellowstone National Park's 125th Anniversary , Albright Visitors Center, Sunday, August 17, 1997: "When we come here, we see the longpole pine and the Douglas fir."
Sorry Al, it's LODGEpole. There is no such thing as a LONGpole pine.

Michael who?
Maybe Michael Jordan hasn't made an indelible impression on everyone outside Chicago. Speaking at a D.C. function, Vice President Al Gore, wowed by the Bulls, said: "I tell you that Michael Jackson is unbelievable, isn't he. He's just unbelievable."
( Source: The Chicago Tribune June 17, 1998 )

James who?
In his first appearance in a nationally televised candidates forum, Gore was asked to name a past US president from whom he drew personal inspiration. He replied that he especially admired another "dark horse" candidate, and a product of his home state, the great "president James Knox". The only problem is that the history books show that nobody named Knox ever occupied the White House. He most likely meant James Knox Polk.
(Source: Chicago Tribune of 7/24/87; The British Sunday Times; Michael Medved of KVI radio (570 AM based in Seattle).


Manliness Thanks!
In 1996, Al Gore visited a school in a largely Hispanic portion of Albuquerque, New Mexico. In an effort to fit in, he decided it would be appropriate to say something in Spanish as he took the stage. He was probably supposed to say "Muchisimas Gracias", which means "Very, very much thanks" or possibly "Muchas Gracias", which means "thank you very much." Instead, he walked on stage saying "Machismo Gracias" - roughly translated to "manliness thanks." There's a video clip of the press in Albuquerque giggling about it and saying, "Oh well, he's trying."
(Source: KOB-TV in Albuquerque, New Mexico, 1996 -- does anyone have the exact date or can anyone confirm this?)


Daily Town Hall Meetings
"I certainly learned a great deal from 3,000 town hall meetings across my home state of Tennessee over a 16-year period" in Congress, the vice president told NPR’s Bob Edwards.
Do the math. That’s 187 town hall meetings per year, or a meeting in Tennessee every other day for 16 years, including weekends, holidays, vacations, and time spent running for president in 1988 and for vice president in 1992.
Now, Gore never specifically claimed that he was actually at all of the Town Hall meetings, but it certainly sounds like he is trying to imply that he was there when he states that he learned a great deal from 3,000 meetings!
(Source: http://www.cei.org/UpdateReader.asp?ID=777)


Special exception for Clinton.
"I seek this office to restore the rule of law and respect for common sense to the White House." ...

"Americans in every region and in both political parties have been shaken by the betrayal of public trust ... and the dishonesty of the public officials."...

"Any government official who ... lies to the United States Congress will be fired immediately."
(Source: Seattle Times, June 29, 1987)
Gore must be talking about the standards he'd apply to a Republican White House! After all, he referred to Clinton as "one of our greatest presidents" at the White House Post-Impeachment Pep Rally on December 19, 1998.


Gore Loves Courtney Love.
Finding himself talking to the controversial rock star Courtney Love at a Hollywood party, Mr. Gore attempted to charm her by telling her he was a fan. Rather than just accepting the easy compliment, Love cross-examined him.
"He goes 'I'm a really big fan'," said Love. "And I was like 'Yeah, right. Name a song, Al'." The answer came limply back: "I can't name a song, I'm just a really big fan."
Mr. Gore and his wife, Tipper, were the driving forces behind the campaign to make record companies put stickers on records that contained lyrics with sexually explicit content.
(Sources: The [London] Times, 10/1/98; Courtney Love recounted this event on the May 20, 1999 Late Show with David Letterman )

Left-wing idiot.
Back in 1994, Al Gore called Oliver North "the colonel of untruth" and said Mr. North was counting on political contributions from "the extra-chromosome right wing."
(Sources: White House Special Briefing, 10/28/94; Washington Times, September 4, 1997 )
AL APOLOGIZES: Vice President Al Gore sent out a letter apologizing for his embarrassing "extra chromosome" jibe at Oliver North supporters, saying he had "learned an important lession [sic]." (Source: National Review, December 31, 1994.)


He can't use a computer?
Pete Talek, a U.S. Steel employee speaking with Al Gore: "I am a few credits shy of earning a master's degree and could use federal funds to help defray tuition costs because he also is putting a daughter through community college. "I worked with a 14-inch pipe wrench for years and a coal shovel." Adding that he since has added a computer keyboard to the list of tools he can now use. "Gore smiled and admitted that he, too, has trouble turning on a computer - let alone using one."
(Source: "Gore Touts Job-Training Programs at Pittsburgh Factory" Associated Press September 4, 1998)
Which is it Al? Articles paint you as a techie nerdie type with early, and possibly fairly substantive knowledge of computers and networks, but you can't use a computer? You used Arpanet in the 70's but now have trouble turning on a computer?


Where am I again?
Al Gore visited Minneapolis Minnesota on October 12, 1998 and raised several hundred thousand dollars for DFL gubernatorial nominee Hubert Humphrey III and two Democratic congressmen. Too bad he forgot which state he was in. Gore misspoke when he tried to summarize their commitment to education. "They will be the education team that Missouri needs to move into the 21st century," he said.
(Source: Minneapolis Star Tribune, October 13, 1998)


Does this mean he'd fire Clinton?
"My first pledge will be to restore integrity to the White House. And I'll fire anyone who has lied to the American people or the United States Congress."
(Source: Al Gore, in a February 2, 1988 presidential debate)


The earth is upside down!
In the spring 1998 - Gore called The Washington Post's executive editor to tip him off on an ''error'' in the paper. ''I decided I just had to call because you've printed a picture of the Earth upside down on the front page of the paper,'' Gore said.
(Source: Florida Times Union 4/3/98 ) There is no ''up'' in space; only on maps that orient the Earth's surface north and south.
For more examples of Al Gore's vast knowledge of space, take a look at the Florida Times Union article


Gore loves tobacco.
"Throughout most of my life, I raised tobacco. I want you to know that with my own hands, all of my life, I put it in the plant beds and transferred it. I've hoed it. I've dug in it. I've sprayed it, I've chopped it, I've shredded it, spiked it, put it in the barn and stripped it and sold it.
(Source: [New York] Newsday, 2/26/88

Oh wait.. I didn't mean that...
"Sometimes, you never fully face up to things that you ought to face up to." -- Al Gore, discussing why he accepted checks from his family tobacco farm and contributions from tobacco companies for years after the tragic death of his sister that he spoke about so emotionally at the 1996 Democratic convention.
(Source: "'Numbness' Let Gore Accept Tobacco Help," San Francisco Chronicle, August 30, 1996)


That's why I voted for Bush.

Pneumatic
15th November 2000, 16:41
And while we are at it, here is a list of just straight out LIES that AlGore has told. These aren't mistakes in speech these are LIES.


Gore Created the Internet?

The Gore Lie

“During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.” (Al Gore, CNN’s “Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer,” 3/9/99)

The Truth

The U.S. Defense Department Created the Internet. “The Internet, originally called ARPANET, dates to 1969, when the Defense Department began funding the project. Gore, then 21, was still eight years away from joining Congress.” (The Associated Press, 3/11/99)



Gore Was the Inspiration for Love Story?

The Gore Lie

“Around midnight, after a three-city tour of Texas last month, the Vice President came wandering back to the press compartment of Air Force Two. Sliding in behind a table with the two reporters covering him that day, he picked slices of fruit from their plates and spent two hours swapping opinions about movies and telling stories about old chums like Erich Segal, who, Gore said, used Al and Tipper as models for the uptight preppy and his free-spirited girlfriend in Love Story; and Gore’s Harvard roommate Tommy Lee Jones, who played the roommate of the Gore-like character in the movie version of Segal’s book.” (Time, 12/15/97)

The Truth

Not According to Love Story Author Erich Segal. “Vice President Al Gore acknowledged Sunday a ‘miscommunication’ on his part in leading reporters to believe he and his wife were the model for the 1970s romance novel ‘Love Story.’ The author, Erich Segal, told The New York Times he was ‘befuddled’ by the comments in the first place. He said he called Gore, and the vice president said it was a misunderstanding.” (The Des Moines Register, 12/15/97)



Gore Led a Crusade Against Tobacco?

The Gore Lie

“When I was a child, my family was attacked by an invisible force that was then considered harmless. My sister Nancy was older than me. There were only the two of us, and I loved her more than life itself. She started smoking when she was 13 years old. The connection between smoking and lung cancer had not yet been established. But years later, the cigarettes had taken their toll. It hurt very badly to watch her savaged by that terrible disease. Her husband Frank and all of us who loved her so much tried to get her to stop smoking. . . . Tomorrow morning, another 13-year-old girl will start smoking. I love her too. Three thousand young people in America will start smoking tomorrow. One thousand of them will die a death not unlike my sister’s. And that is why until I draw my last breath, I will poor pour my heart and soul into the cause of protecting our children from the dangers of smoking.” (Al Gore, The Democratic National Convention, 8/28/96)

The Truth

Yet, 4 Years after the Death of Gore’s Sister the Press Reported: ‘“Throughout most of my life, I raised tobacco,’ the Tennessee senator hollered. ‘I want you to know that with my own hands, all of my life, I put it in the plant beds and transferred it. I’ve hoed it, I’ve dug in it, I’ve sprayed it, I’ve chopped it, I’ve shredded it, spiked it, put it in the barn and stripped it and sold it.’” ([New York] Newsday, 2/26/88)

Gore Was Still Growing Tobacco and Receiving Money From Tobacco Interests Years After His Sister’s Death. Tobacco was still grown on the Gore family farm years after Gore’s sister’s death. (CNN’s “Inside Politics,” 3/19/99) Furthermore, “from 1979 until the end of 1990, he [Gore] accepted $16,440 from tobacco political action committees.” (The Washington Post, 8/30/96)



Gore Worked for 20 Years on a Test Ban Treaty?

The Gore Lie

“I’ve worked on this for 20 years because, unless we get this one right, nothing else matters.” (Gore 2000 web site, 10/14/99)

The Truth

Gore’s Own Words Prove Past Opposition to the Treaty. In 1988, Gore chastised his Democrat colleagues for supporting the ban and clearly indicated that he would have voted against the comprehensive test ban as a senator:

Q: “If you’re elected president, will you suspend all U.S. nuclear weapons tests, upon taking office, and then proceed to conclude a formal test ban treaty?”

GORE: “Well, just as President John Kennedy made our world safer by getting a treaty banning atmospheric explosions, I would seek a treaty with the Soviet Union banning underground explosions as well. But before doing so, I would pin down the answers to two questions that are important to our national security:”

“First of all, can we firmly verify whether or not the Soviet Union is exploding low-yield tests on its territory? The evidence now coming from the scientists indicates that there are ways to negotiate cooperative agreements with the Soviets to make that possible. But we need the answer before the test ban rather than after.” (C-SPAN, Remarks by Al Gore at the Democratic Presidential Forum sponsored by the “Stop the Arms Race Political Action Committee,” 9/27/87)

Gore’s emphasis on the need for the continued testing of weapons systems to preserve the U.S. deterrent capability extended to many strategic systems. When his fellow Democrats advocated a ban on the flight-testing of missiles, Gore was scathing:

“They took positions that are wildly out of touch with what mainstream Democratic voters believe. . . That’s not exaggerated political rhetoric, that is absolutely the case. The very idea of having a complete ban on all flight-testing of missiles when we rely on deterrence for the survival of our civilization. . .” (The Washington Post, 2/22/88)



Gore Has Always Been Pro-Choice?

The Gore Lie

“And know this, I will always, always defend a woman’s right to choose. Every time Congress has tried to play politics with that fundamental personal right -- imposing gag rules, and attaching anti-choice language to any bill they can think of -- we have stood up to them and stopped them.” (Al Gore, Remarks at Women for Gore Event, 6/1/99)

The Truth

Gore Was Pro-Life as a Congressman. “It is my deep personal conviction that abortion is wrong. I hope that some day we will see the current outrageously large number of abortions drop sharply. . . . Let me assure you that I share your belief that innocent human life must be protected . . . In my opinion, it is wrong to spend federal funds for what is arguably the taking of a human life. . . .” (Letter from Rep. Al Gore to a Constituent, 7/18/84)

“During my 11 years in Congress, I have consistently opposed federal funding of abortions. In my opinion, it is wrong to spend federal funds for what is arguably the taking of a human life.” (Sen. Albert Gore Jr. Letter to a Constituent, 5/26/87)

“Calling abortion ‘the most complex issue that any candidate faces,’ Albert Gore Jr. said Wednesday that he doesn’t believe the courts have struck a proper balance between the rights of a fetus and woman’s right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. ‘I don’t believe a woman’s freedom to live her own life, in all cases, outweighs the fetus’ right to life,’ the 4th District congressional candidate said, predicting that the abortion issue will be the forerunner to a whole series of issues in which medical technology and basic human rights come in conflict. Gore said he favors a cautious, case-by-case approach.” (The Nashville Banner, 7/29/76)



Gore’s Reporting Resulted In the Imprisonment of a Bunch of People?

The Gore Lie

“In 1987, Gore’s eagerness to play up his image as an investigative reporter led to one of the worst gaffes of his short-lived campaign for the presidency. Gore told The Des Moines Register that his reporting ‘got a bunch of people indicted and sent to jail.’” (Columbia Journalism Review, 1/93)

The Truth

In 1988 Gore Was Caught Lying About His Career as a Reporter. “Presidential candidate Sen. Albert Gore Jr. says he made an honest mistake when he said a Metro councilman had gone to prison after Gore wrote stories as a Tennessean reporter.”

“In an interview published last Sunday by the Des Moines Register, Gore was quoted as saying he ‘got a bunch of people indicted and sent to jail’ while working as a reporter for The Tennessean in the 1970s.”

“A story appearing in yesterday’s editions of The Commercial Appeal, a Memphis newspaper, says Gore exaggerated his record as an investigative reporter for The Tennessean.”

“Two persons were indicted as a result of an investigation into alleged corruption on the Metro Council in Nashville during the period in which Gore was covering the council. Neither of them was imprisoned as a result of the charges.” (The Tennessean, 10/4/87)



Gore Faced Enemy Fire in Vietnam?

The Gore Lie

“And I was shot at. . . . I spent most of my time in the field.” (Al Gore, The Washington Post, 2/3/88)

“I carried an M-16 . . . I pulled my turn on the perimeter at night and walked through the elephant grass, and I was fired upon.” (Al Gore, Los Angeles Times, 10/15/99)

The Truth

Gore No Longer Mentions Combat Duty on the Campaign Trail. “On the campaign trail today, while he suggests no combat heroics, he nonetheless mentions his service in Vietnam proudly.” (Los Angeles Times, 10/15/99)

Gore Had Bodyguards Assigned to Keep Him Out of Harm’s Way in Vietnam. “In Vietnam, Alan Leo, a photographer in the press brigade office where Gore worked as a reporter, said he was summoned by Brig. Gen. K.B. Cooper, the 20th Engineer Brigade’s Commander, and told Leo that he, Cooper, ‘had a great amount of respect for the senator.’ He asked Leo, the most experienced member of the press unit, to make sure that nothing happened to Gore. ‘He requested that “Gore not get into situations that were dangerous,’” said Leo, who did what he could to carry out Cooper’s directive. He described his half-dozen or so trips into the field with Gore as situations where ‘I could have worn a tuxedo.’” (Newsweek, 12/6/99)



Gore Would Never Mess With Social Security?

The Gore Lie

“Social Security Benefits Will Remain Untaxed. . . . I sincerely believe that any plan to tax Social Security benefits would place an unforgivable burden on our senior citizens who are currently trying to enjoy their retirement years in the face of ever-increasing prices . . . it is totally inconceivable . . . It is unfair . . .” (Albert Gore Jr. column, Carthage Courier, 2/21/80)

The Truth

Gore Has Voted to Raise Taxes on Social Security. In 1993, Gore cast the tie-breaking vote for the largest tax increase in history that included $25 billion in higher taxes on Social Security benefits. (Bill Clinton & Al Gore, Putting People First, 1992; CQ Vote #247: Adopted 51-50: R 0-44; D 50-6, with Albert Gore Jr. casting a “yea” vote, 8/6/93; “The Economic and Budget Outlook: An Update,” Congressional Budget Office, 9/93)



Gore Co-Sponsored McCain/Feingold Campaign Finance Reform?

The Gore Lie

“Gore noted that he had backed a sweeping campaign finance bill sponsored by Senators John McCain, Republican of Arizona, and Russell D. Feingold, Democrat of Wisconsin. ‘Unlike Senator Bradley, I was a co-sponsor of it,’ Gore said, ‘and I feel that it’s very important to get the influence of special interest money out of our politics.’” (The New York Times, 11/24/99)

The Truth

Gore Never Even Served with Sen. Feingold. Sen. Russell Feingold was not elected to the U.S. Senate until 1992, the year Al Gore left the Senate to become Vice President, therefore making it impossible for Gore to be a co-sponsor of any McCain/Feingold campaign finance reform legislation. (The Almanac of American Politics 1994)

Even Bill Bradley Called Gore on This Lie. “Gore not only did not, but could not have cosponsored McCain-Feingold. Russ Feingold was not elected until 1992. Al Gore quit the Senate in 1992 to become Vice President. Feingold and Gore never served together.” (Bill Bradley for President Press Release, 12/7/99)



Gore Supports the Death Penalty?

The Gore Lie

“Defending his position on the death penalty, Gore said, ‘I’ve always supported it because I think society has a right to make careful judgments about when that ultimate penalty ought to be applied.’” (The Associated Press, 11/19/99)

The Truth

Gore Voted Against the Death Penalty. Gore voted against the death penalty for drug kingpins. (CQ Vote 140: Adopted 66-32: R 38-6; D 28-26, 6/28/90)

Gore voted against the death penalty for terrorists. (CQ Vote #12: Rejected 25-72: R 5-38; D 20-34, 2/20/91)



Gore Discovered Love Canal?

The Gore Lie

“I found a little place in upstate New York called Love Canal. I had the first hearing on that issue and Toone, Tenn. But that was the one that started it all.” (Al Gore, The New York Times, 12/10/99)

The Truth

Jimmy Carter, the Federal Government and Local Residents All Found Love Canal Long Before Gore Did. “Mr. Gore held Congressional hearings on the matter in October 1978. But two months earlier President Jimmy Carter had declared Love Canal a disaster area, and the federal government, after much howling by local residents, had offered to buy the homes.” (The New York Times, 12/1/99)

Lois Gibbs, the Leader of the Love Canal Home Owners Association, Rebukes Gore. ‘“He did not begin Love Canal,’ Lois Gibbs, legendary leader of the Love Canal Home Owners Association, said Wednesday in an interview.” ([New York] Newsday, 12/3/99)



Gore Wrote Superfund?

The Gore Lie

“I have written the law, along with one other principle author of the superfund law, and amendments to the other major law in this area which requires that companies improperly disposing of hazardous waste, must bear the financial consequences of cleaning it up.” (Al Gore, The League of Women Voters Democrat Debate, 4/16/88)

The Truth

Rep. James Florio Authored Superfund. Rep. James Florio (D-N.J.) wrote the first Superfund law. (CQ Vote#510: Passed 351-23: R 123-14; D 228-9, 9/23/80) Though he did not author the law, Gore did vote for it. However, he also criticized Superfund for being “far too small to make a reasonable start on correcting this enormous environmental problem.” (Al Gore, Congressional Record, 5/16/80)



Gore Wrote the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)?

The Gore Lie

“[Bradley’s proposals were] an old-style approach that spends a lot of money but doesn’t have any new ideas. [He proposes] the expansion of the Earned Income Tax Credit. I was the author of that proposal. I wrote that, so I say, welcome aboard. That is something for which I have been the principal proponent for a long time.” (Al Gore, Time, 11/1/99)

The Truth

Gore Was Not In Congress When the EITC Was Passed. The EITC Act was originally passed in 1975. Gore did not become a member of Congress until 1977. Gore did not write the EITC Act of 1975. (Buffalo News, 12/13/99; U.S. News & World Report, 12/20/99)



Gore Negotiated an Agreement that Provided Internet Protection for Children?

The Gore Lie

“I helped to negotiate an agreement with the Internet service providers to put a parent protection page up and give parents the ability to click on all of the web sites that their children have visited lately. That’ll put a lot of bargaining leverage in the hands of parents.” (Al Gore, ABC’s “Nightline” Democratic Debate, 12/16/99)

The Truth

Gore Had Little or Nothing to Do with Internet Protection for Children. “The [Internet] industry had been working for a year with bipartisan members of Congress on putting a link to on-line child-safety resources on the front page of Internet portals – with no participation from the Vice President.” (editorial, The Wall Street Journal, 5/6/99) Bartlett Cleland, a board member of the nonprofit Internet Education Foundation, said: “There was no Gore involvement. They hijacked this issue. He makes it sound like he led the project. I can’t imagine what he will invent tomorrow.” (The Washington Times, 5/6/99)



Gore’s Discussion With A Speech Writer Had A Major Impact On Hubert Humphrey’s 1968 Democratic National Convention Acceptance Speech?

The Gore Lie

“As young Gore later often told the story, he had been interviewed the day before by Charles Bartlett, the veteran Chicago Sun-Times columnist from Chattanooga, a family friend who had known Albert Gore Sr., the senior senator from Tennessee, since his early days in the House. Bartlett ‘had passed the apogee of his career’ by 1968 but was ‘still a very eloquent writer,’ Gore said, and was one of those helping Humphrey with his speech at the convention. ‘And he came and spent an hour with me, asking what people my age thought about the war.’ As Gore sat in the convention hall and looked up at Humphrey in the spotlight, he thought that he heard his own words coming back to him. He was convinced that the vice president’s speechwriters had incorporated his suggestions into the acceptance speech -- evoking ‘the end of an era,’ the promise of a ‘prompt end to the war,’ the assertion that no one wanted ‘a police state,’ the call for ‘young Americans . . . to continue as vocal, creative and even critical participants in the politics of our time.’ Hearing those phrases, Gore said later, led him to the conclusion that ‘there was no doubt Mr. Bartlett had faithfully conveyed some of the feelings that I had tried to describe.”’ (The Washington Post, 12/27/99)

The Truth

The Individual Gore Spoke With Had No Link to Humphrey in 1968. “But was Gore only imagining his role as interpreter for his generation? According to Bartlett's description of those long-ago events, that might be the case. ‘I had nothing to do with Humphrey,’ Bartlett said in a recent interview. ‘I had no contact with Humphrey at all. If I talked to Al, it was perhaps for a story. I had absolutely no link at all with Hubert Humphrey in 1968.’ When presented with Bartlett’s response, Gore quickly retreated from his earlier recollection. ‘Faulty memory. Faulty memory,’ he said of himself and his oft-told story.” (The Washington Post, 12/27/99)



Gore Lives on a Farm Today?

The Gore Lie

“I’ve spent some of my time growing up on a farm,’ Gore said. “I live on a farm today. I have my heart in my own farm. Yes, I live in Washington, D.C., when I’m working there. And yes I grew up more there than I did on the farm. But my heart is in Smith County, Tenn.” (ABCNEWS.com, 12/23/99)

The Truth

Gore Lives At the Naval Observatory In Washington, DC. “In yet another one of his patented Goreisms, the vice president appeared to reopen the question of whether he was raised as a city boy or a country boy. In the process of trying to find common ground with a questioner, Gore claimed that his current home is a farm – referring to his family’s farm in Carthage, Tenn. He quickly qualified the statement by noting that he lives in Washington ‘when I’m working there.’” (ABCNEWS.com, 12/23/99)

Bixler
15th November 2000, 18:41
Joel"

Rotflmao!!!!

(and I like mini me!)

blackmouser
15th November 2000, 21:08
I thought all politicians were flaky...I don't see anything different here...The only question is, Are they crazy enough to want the job? And why should anybody that crazy be allowed to do the job?

Greebe
16th November 2000, 02:04
NOTICE TO AMERICANS OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE
FROM THE GOVERNMENT OF HER MAJESTY QUEEN ELIZABETH II

To the citizens of the United States of America: In the
light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and
thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the
revocation of your independence, effective today.

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume
monarchial duties over all states, commonwealths and other
territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy.

Your new prime minister (The rt. hon. Tony Blair, MP for the
97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is
a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for
America without the need for further elections. Congress and
the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire will be
circulated next year to determine whether any of you
noticed.

To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the
following rules are introduced with immediate effect

1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English
Dictionary. Then look up "aluminium". Check the
pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly
you have been pronouncing it. Generally, you should raise
your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary".
Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler
noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and
inefficient form of communication. Look up interspersed".

2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let
Microsoft know on your behalf.

3. Arrest Mel Gibson for treason.

4. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God
Save The Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1.
We would not want you to get confused and give up half way
through.

5. You should stop playing American "football". There is
only one kind of football. What you refer to as American
"football" is not a very good game. The 2.15% of you who are
aware that there is a world outside your borders may have
noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will
no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play
proper football. Initially, it would be best if you played
with the girls. It is a difficult game. Those of you brave
enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is
similar to American "football", but does not involve
stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full
kevlar body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get
together at least a US rugby sevens side by 2005.

6. Stop referring to the "World Series" of Baseball and
instead call it the "USA, Cuba and Japan Championship"

7. Learn to enjoy warm flat beer and steak and kidney
pudding. Train waitresses to be more aggressive with
customers and not to tell you their names before you eat.

8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will
be a new national holiday, but only in England. It will be
called "Indecisive Day".

9. Driving on the left is now compulsory - recall all cars
to effect the change immediately.

10. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us
crazy.


http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

SCompRacer
16th November 2000, 02:21
Picture a man, with aides far out of touch with reality, briefing him.

Picture a man, far out of touch with the common man, briefed by aides also far out of touch, so that he fumbles while trying to relate to them.

They should either practice more or speak less.

Say, what is the capital of Washington State anyway? Seattle???

Greebe
16th November 2000, 10:07
Seattle! http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif

Himself
16th November 2000, 10:38
Greebe,

Did the Queen of England send you some nasty email we don't know about? http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif What's with Americans and the Queen of England? I don't get the facination, is it a grandmother complex or something? http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by Himself (edited 16 November 2000).]

Greebe
16th November 2000, 11:17
I recieve lots of email from abroad (no not her!), just thought this would put a different spin on things for the moment. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif

Dyre
16th November 2000, 23:55
Im sorry, but there is a big difference between making simple grammer mistakes and flat out lying-

I mean, hell, gore invented the Internet, didnt he?

impact
17th November 2000, 01:05
Oh, did he? Well another reason to vote for him, right? What did Bush invent?

But enough joking... Whatever happens now, I think we're pretty safe here in Europe.

Vlip
17th November 2000, 02:12
You sure are entertaining us big times down here in Europe. Sorry to say that, but even "Les Guignols de l'info" from Canal + (a french TV channel) are making a lot of fun of you (and damn they are good at that).

Big US lost a lot of his credits in Europe with this affair. Nobody's perfect.

impact
17th November 2000, 05:37
Bush: He's not dumb, he's just dumb on the outside...

ALBPM
17th November 2000, 15:41
http://home.att.net/~albpm/Algore.jpg

Paul

Joel
17th November 2000, 18:27
Subject: candidates against the media?


The two major presidential canidates today agreed that Americans are seeing to much inappropriate material in popular entertainment.
However-they disagree on the details.
The Rep. candidate, George W Bush stated that there was too much bloody violence in the movies and on TV.
Vice President Al Gore, his Democrat opponent, stated meanwhile that the media presents Americans with too much sex and frontal nudity.
In other words, Bush says there is too much gore, and Gore says there is too much bush.


Joel http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

impact
18th November 2000, 01:29
ALBPM: any chance someone with a Marvel can make this into .avi?

paulcs
18th November 2000, 02:17
A big *LOL* to both Paul and Joel.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

Guru
18th November 2000, 03:00
Found this: http://www.bet.com/elections/florida_vote.html http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
Join the MURC SETI team! (http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/cgi?cmd=team_join_form&id=25678) | SETI @ MURC (http://www.setiatmurc.f2s.com/)

Don't get even — get odd!

paulcs
18th November 2000, 03:20
And Vlip, don't you think it a little ironic that FRENCH TV is making fun of the US for this admittedly "less than smooth" transition of government.

From the Old Regime (800 years of bread famines. Let them eat cake!)

to the Republic (le premiere holocaust!),

to Empire (some Americans know that Waterloo isn't just an Abba song and Marboro isn't just a cigarette),

to the Bourbon Restoration (what a GREAT idea that was!),

to the Orleanist Monarchy (which, let's face it, fell because it was dull),

to the Second Republic (electing a boob like Louis Napolean as President and then voting him Emperor.),

to the Second Empire (Hello Bismark. Goodbye Napolean III and Alsace-Lorraine.),

to the Third Republic (which ended with, you guessed it, VICHY!)

to the Fourth Republic (Algerie Francais! Algerie Francais!),

to the Fifth Republic,

has any nation experienced less "smooth transitions of government?" During the above timeline, the United States has had a single constitution, and *not once* has government changed because of bloodbaths, humilating defeat, or because a colonial posession got pissed off at us and threatened to invade.

Sheesh! What nerve.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 18 November 2000).]

impact
18th November 2000, 06:00
*click*

Thank you for voting for George Bush.

*click* *click* *click*

Thank you for voting for George Bush.

*click* *click* *click* Dammit! *click* *click* *click*

Thank you for voting for George Bush.

fds
18th November 2000, 06:26
I know I would have voted for Bush without hesitation if I were an US citizen. He seems to be a much nicer fellow.

Vlip
18th November 2000, 08:39
paulcs, you're absolutely right about what you said. I never said France was better than United States, I just said they were making fun of you. That's all, historically they might be wrong to do so, but they do it.

If there is a man I wouldn't want to be now, it's the french president. What a joke! Trying to govern a country whose national sport is striking!

But for smooth elections, I may point out my country, again, who had many votations without glitches at all.

Vlip

Himself
18th November 2000, 09:06
If this situation were to happen in Canada, and it has, there is a third option, a coalition government, where two parties form an alliance to form the government.

paulcs
18th November 2000, 09:11
"But for smooth elections, I may point out my country, again, who had many votations without glitches at all."

Vlip, that's because you guys have been doing it longer than anyone else. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 18 November 2000).]

Vlip
18th November 2000, 11:54
That must be why nobody ever listens to us. We are an old country and everybody thinks we are senile grandpa's not worth listening at.

Now I know the truth!

Vlip

dZeus
18th November 2000, 12:30
Switzerland doesn't have anything to say, because they just don't say anything. Isn't it the Swiss political policy to remain neutral on as many points as possible? Well, it isn't a bad policy, but it can seem very harsh to the outside world in some conflicts... (no policy is problem-free)

Vlip
18th November 2000, 12:43
Switzerland's neutrality is mostly thought about war times! We won't take party for any side of a regular war.
In typical political life, Switzerland does have an opinion and expresses it to whoever wants to hear it.

Switzerland has pushed the concept of neutrality to such a point, that it forbids us to arm our military forces we send in foreign countries for peacekeeping.
Our good old extrem left wing politicians just believe you can always talk to settle a solution. Just tell that to the freak with a Kalachnikov! (I don't even want to speak from the point of view of the extrem right politicians who believe a Swiss soldiers does not belong anywhere else outside our borders, especially for Peacekeeping)

Switzerland needs to move on that point, but neutrality is maybe as anchored in our mind than the freedom of bearing arms is in your country.

Vlip

Joel
18th November 2000, 13:11
www.auschron.com/issues/vol18/issue45/pols.sci.html (http://www.auschron.com/issues/vol18/issue45/pols.sci.html)

Joel http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

dZeus
18th November 2000, 13:28
Switzerland needs to move on that point, but neutrality is maybe as anchored in our mind than the freedom of bearing arms is in your country.

What make you think that we are allowed to bear arms here?

Oh... it's the Mars thingie... I actually live in the Netherlands... and there are even stricter gun laws than in your country here... not sure about mars though http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Vlip
18th November 2000, 17:09
Oups, sorry Dzeus, I just assumed you were american, I didn't check your nationality. All my fault.

Vlip

Himself
18th November 2000, 18:19
I always thought you were from Mars. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Maggi
19th November 2000, 10:29
Whoa ... what a stir ... http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif

Just for clarification:

I didn't have any such quotes from Al, if I had I would have posted 'em right besides the ones from George.

http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Either way, it looks like the US is screwed ... http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Cheers,
Maggi

Pneumatic
19th November 2000, 10:51
I don't know if I would go so far as to say that the US is "screwed". Either way it goes America will continue to be the most powerful, most prosperous nation in the world. The President doesn't have ultimate authority over every thing that happens in the country. The Senate and Congress have much more to do with what actually goes on from day to day. Whomever wins I would still rather live here than anywhere else. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Himself
19th November 2000, 12:16
I think the US is a great place for Americans to live, there is really no need for them to go beyond their borders. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

What would be neat is if someone could do that old Spiderman trick of raising the entire place into the air with a force field around it. Perhaps send it to the moon, that way they could really be above everybody else and no one would mind. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Pneumatic
19th November 2000, 14:23
That would suit me fine. We would survive just fine. Unfortunately a lot of countries around the world wouldn't.

Himself: I notice that you don't put where you come fom. What exactly does your country contribute to the world? You make a list of everything your country does to help the planet and other countries. I'll make one when you are done and we will see who the world could live without. Deal? http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

paulcs
19th November 2000, 16:33
Himself is from Newfoundland, which was discovered by Leif Erickson, long before Columbus ran into El Salvador on his way to India. In 1003, in fact. Given the name of the place, I doubt Capt. Erickson thought he was in India either.

Bad PR, I guess.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

Himself
19th November 2000, 16:47
No country is indispensable, if the US were to disappear, all 4% of the world's population with it, the world would move on and take up the slack, just like it would for any other country. Frankly, most electronic products are made in Taiwan, there are extreme surpluses in grains, general food crops across the world. Even your G400 comes from Matrox in Canada. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif I seriously can't name a US product that is 100% from the US.

Playing my country is better than yours games is stupid, that is my entire point, especially if you are judging where is best to live based on how many bombs a country has. Enough with the US is better than everywhere else, please. Countries are different, with different pros and cons, get over it.

PS: If you don't know where I am from, you just haven't been paying attention. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Bixler
19th November 2000, 20:25
Himself:

If you're from Newfoundland, I now understand your profile. Nothing sly intended there. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif Newfoundland and the Mississippi Delta have MUCH in common.

How're the flys up there m'man?? The Skeeters down here are bigger and badder than ever. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

paulcs
20th November 2000, 02:34
I enjoy a good hypothetical conversation as much as the next guy, but this is a bit much.

The improbable voyage of the United States to the moon would destroy the economies of it's great, historical trading partners: Canada, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and Japan. Each of these countries are G7 nations and control much of the world's wealth. The consequences would be dire in the extreme.

The United States' most important economic partner is Canada. If Canada would take a trip to the moon, the United States' economy would be in extremely bad shape. If the United States were to disappear, Canada's economy would be in ruins, and it would, once again, be reliant on the United Kingdom for its defense.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

Himself
20th November 2000, 08:49
Bixler,

From watching Huck Finn on TV, I'm guessing MS is some sort of humid place with lots of rivers. We have lots of rivers, but few bugs, it's too cold most of the year. We have a resource based economy, hydro- electric power, forestry, mining, oil, etc. We used to be about fish, that's where most of the culture lies, but there are no more fish. Lots of evergreen trees, lots of small hills, few flat surfaces to be found anywhere. Lot's of fog and rain and snow.

paulcs,

I think long term, it no longer matters what a single country does, most companies are global in nature today. Without one G7 partner, either another country would be promoted or the rest would get richer.

As for defense, we'd be surrounded on all sides by water and ice. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif Just as easily nuked as before, there is no defense againsta that outside of star wars, and if someone wanted to invade, they better bring an extra pair of hiking boots, and some wooly underwear, because it's a large, cold, territory. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by Himself (edited 20 November 2000).]

dZeus
20th November 2000, 11:33
paulcs: The Netherlands a G7 country? That is new to me! I think you got confused with Germany, which has a _much_ larger economy... well... isn't that much difference between Holland and Germany, so I understand (don't tell any Dutchman, or they will get furious! http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif ).

paulcs
20th November 2000, 13:18
I actually forgot about mentioning the Netherlands when I brought up the Netherlands.

The Dutch presence in the US economy is enormous, however. During the Eighties, when the US media was doing backflips over the Japanese purchasing some high profile American assets, there was some discussion about the possibility of racism being the root of these concerns. There were at least three countries ahead of Japan, and they were Canada, the United Kingdom, and the Netherlands.

Canada and the UK were pretty obvious. Canada is a highly industrialized nation and shares a very long border, very peaceful border with the US. England and the US have a shared history, of course.

The Netherlands wasn't so obvious, although it you think about it, it makes sense. The Dutch settled the US's center of commerce, New York City. In fact, they are responsible for it being the center of commerce. When the English took over, they apparently maintained much of the New Amsterdam status quo. Dutch enterprise was not disrupted, and remains to this day. If NYC is all about money, it's because the Seventeenth Century Dutch were all about money.

Himself, that's the wackiest macroeconomic theory I've ever heard. If the US severed economic ties with Canada tomorrow, I suspect the US economy would be severely damaged and the Canadian economy would collapse. Both nations would lose their number one trading partners. Canada would lose billions in assets.

Not to mention the extra cash made in Canadian border towns from the one to one dollar exhange. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

Himself
20th November 2000, 15:20
By long term, I meant looong term. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif Besides, even if Canada were wiped out along with the US, that's still a drop in the bucket worldwise.

SCompRacer
20th November 2000, 16:57
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/interactive/allpolitics/0011/election.glossary/link.ballot.glossary.gif">chad
dictionary</a>

[This message has been edited by SCompRacer (edited 20 November 2000).]

paulcs
20th November 2000, 17:20
What would they do without us?

Where would they get their videocards? http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

Himself
20th November 2000, 21:34
LOL! http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif