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View Full Version : Holly back as Mod for TSB; please sign this petition!!!



Kaj
22nd September 2000, 18:09
Since Holly left as Mod, things haven't been the same in TSB.
I think that Joel is taking things a bit too seriously, with his reactions in the joke-thread as a preliminary all-time-low for what I've seen here at MURC.

To put it short: Who would like to have Holly (motub) back as The Soap Box moderator?
Who would like her to co-host this forum?

One Mod-vote here...

[This message has been edited by Kaj (edited 23 September 2000).]

Greebe
22nd September 2000, 18:20
It won't happen and I don't mean anything negative toward Holly at all when I say that.

Warrior Acolyte of M
22nd September 2000, 18:21
<tt><nobr>System: Online

<font color="#FF0000">Warning:</font> System is low on humor resource.

Action: <font color="#0000FF">Acolyte</font> vote <font color="#FF0000">YES</font> to <font color="#0000FF">motub</font> as co-host of <font color="#0000FF">TSB.</font>

System: offline.</nobr></tt>

JamesA
22nd September 2000, 18:23
Eh? What happened here during my hiatus (not that anybody noticed I was gone)?

(warning: .sig is out of date)

------------------
JamesA: Just a Dumbass MURCer
System Details (http://web.raex.com/~jdang/demerzel.html)

&quot;Have you had any licorice lately?&quot;

Joel
22nd September 2000, 18:51
When I accepted this position, as moderator of this forum, I was told that I would probably have a harder time than some of the other mods because of the possible subject matter that would be posted here. I have been with these forums since their very conception and one of the things that they have always had, up until recently, was a certain level of professionalism. I attribute that mainly to the influx of alot of new members who are probably coming from other forums where this was not so. Holly resigned, based on what I know, because she did not feel that she had the resources or the time available to maintain this forum at that level of professionalism. I am not Holly and I will not try to be Holly. Holly had her own style and I have mine. I will though try to abide by the 'Forum Survial Guide', which we have Holly to thank for. All I'm asking is that y'all do the same.

Joel

<A HREF="http://forums.murc.ws/cgi-bin/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getannounce&ForumNumber=5&Start=2451510.99&End=2455198&Session=2451810.1206" target=_new>Forum Survival Guide</A>

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 23 September 2000).]

Brian R.
22nd September 2000, 19:57
Joel - All we can ask for is consistency. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Brian R. (edited 23 September 2000).]

Jorden
22nd September 2000, 21:05
A non-agressive questionaire here:


Holly resigned, based on what I know, because she did not feel that she had the resources or the time available to maintain this forum at that level of professionalism.

I know the reason why she let go of the Box, Joel. It was only one of the reasons in a certain email to Ant... And it was none of the above !!

Just a question here: Why would you want to be moderator of TSB anyway? You get a lot of shit in your box, yet you can't delete, move or lock threads that easily, for then you could have long time members of The Box run all over you...

Meaning what, Joel? The Soap Box isn't about professionalism in any way. It's as Ant says on the main page A forum where you can discuss any old rubbish. Now there is no excuse for polluting the other forums!

I know I brought this along before, but now I would like you to say what is the proffesionalism in this forum?... or it must be in Soap, Cheese, Ranting or Any Little Thing Bothering You http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif


I am not Holly and I will not try to be Holly.
TYG, at least I sleep better today http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif


Holly had her own style and I have mine. I will though try to abide by the 'Forum Survial Guide', which we have Holly to thank for.
Okay, here's something I was waiting for... Joel, remember that you have your Mod tag hanging around you in every post you make? You remembered me about it after the attack of "fearless Pim" http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Well, if you try to abide by the 'Forum Survial Guide', you'd better not tell people on MHW (or anywhere for that matter) to leave these fori because they would like to get a GF-2 or GTS or whatever they fancy. Then you'd better not mingle yourself in a battle with a non-BB about a video-card that no-one is interested in.

What I mean is what you said to me: You can't speak for yourself anymore, no matter what. You can't start your burner, when there's a BBQ going on. You just have to let it go, if you can. And if you can't, you just have to take the flak shot at you. If you "try to abide by the 'Forum Survial Guide'" you're only allowed to help people here, not burn them down http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/frown.gif

I let go of me against Gino, Swampy and a couple of others, and received alot of flak, not only from friends but also from about everyone on these fori. So I went into low profile. Can you do so?


All I'm asking is that y'all do the same.

I can't speak for Holly, and I surely won't. She's not here to read this while I type this, but I will leave a note...

People, you know the way Holly ruled this forum. Joel is allowed to give it his own view of things, even I grant that !!

I even agree to Rags' view (http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000853.html) on things http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Just answer my two or three questions above, Joel http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif I'm still behind you, even if it doesn't sound like I am http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

(Someone had to take over the NutBox... I wished it was Rags... LOL!!)

Jord.

P.S: If you read down this far): About the Jokes thread: I can't even load the 3rd page without having to load a new plug-in for my browsers, and that's something I really hate !! I want to go into TSB and read threads, without having to load a plug-in that might or might not install right (and forces you to re-boot!!), only to read some joker's joke.



[This message has been edited by Jorden (edited 23 September 2000).]

GinoCyber
22nd September 2000, 21:39
My god man, what are you babbling about?

BTW, that survival guide was Holly's. I think that everyone has their own belief and that they believe in running things differently.

Nothing personal against Holly but I think Joel should make his own survival guide or modify the current one since he has his own way of running the show.

Ciao

Joel
22nd September 2000, 21:52
I know the reason why she let go of the Box, Joel. It was only one of the reasons in a certain email to Ant... And it was none of the above !!

Well I was only going by what she said on the forums. So are you saying she lied to us?


Why would you want to be moderator of TSB anyway?

It gives me something constructive to do in my spare time. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif


Meaning what, Joel? The Soap Box isn't about professionalism in any way.

Maybe professionallism wasn't the best word to use, but I don't stay up all night studying the dictionary.


It's as Ant says on the main page A forum where you can discuss any old rubbish. Now there is no excuse for polluting the other forums!

That is very true and so far I think I have done a good job of allowing that. I mean I'm not deleting your post and I view it as a direct attack againist me. I did make one mistake with one thread but I learned from it.


I know I brought this along before, but now I would like you to say what is the proffesionalism in this forum?... or it must be in Soap, Cheese, Ranting or Any Little Thing Bothering You

Damn I don't know how to quite respond to that. Hell then again I'm not even sure I understand what you are asking.


Okay, here's something I was waiting for...

In other words you were waiting for me to give her credit for something. I don't know how she feels but even though we have had our differences about things I hold no ill feelings toward her.


What I mean is what you said to me: You can't speak for yourself anymore, no matter what. You can't start your burner, when there's a BBQ going on. You just have to let it go, if you can. And if you can't, you just have to take the flak shot at you. If you "try to abide by the 'Forum Survial Guide'" you're only allowed to help people here, not burn them down

I don't recall telling you that but if you can produce the thread...


People, you know the way Holly ruled this forum. Joel is allowed to give it his own view of things, even I grant that !!

If that is the case then what is the problem.


(Someone had to take over the NutBox... I wished it was Rags... LOL!!)

He didn't want it. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Joel

SwAmPlAdY
22nd September 2000, 22:14
If Jorden wasn't so selfish, no one here would be whining at Joel becuase all Jorden had to do was to let Holly use his Pc.

But nooooooooooooo, Jorden does not believe in sharing with his wife.

tsk tsk tsk

SwAmPy

slyfox
22nd September 2000, 22:49
Hey guys I'm back and boy have things changed alot around here. Took me awhile to get caught up. Sad to see Holly go because I think what this forums needs is more females to help level things out. Most of you guys are just too concerned about who's is bigger.

And Joel I don't know whether to offer you my congratulations or condolences. But I think you will do a great job.

slyfox

paulcs
22nd September 2000, 23:07
WE ARE NOT!!

(I'm the biggest, by the way. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif )

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

paulcs
22nd September 2000, 23:08
Oh. I forgot ...

<font size=+3>BITE ME!</font>


Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 23 September 2000).]

SwAmPlAdY
22nd September 2000, 23:48
Hang on. Gotta find my dentures http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

SwAmPy

paulcs
23rd September 2000, 00:26
Ouch!

Hey, I'm old too!

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

LAMFDTK
23rd September 2000, 10:06
Don't mess with the man from Tenn.

Dilitante1
23rd September 2000, 12:29
I dont have any issues with Joel. He has a job here that should be/is full time babysitting these postings. I dont know why he has an issue bringing up old posted threads.
.
.
.
I would think that bringing up old material would show how fun things were back a year or more ago. This has been a fun place to hang out at. People have told jokes, heckled on another in fun, and YES there hve been larger issues but they were dealt with as needed. .
.
.
The forum has seen many battles (flame sessions) in its day but I think there is still room for fun. Things (IMO) have quieted some this past year and bringing up old material is healthy as long as it is tastefull. Hopefully if the MURC-ywaves thread pops up, it wont be locked up right away, allowing feedback from those who never saw it before (and maybe finally prompt a sequel http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif.
.
.
.
Holly's resignation was hard on her I am sure. If she could be a moderator part time, I feel she would. I wish Joel luck in keeping cool with everything happening here, but censorship outside of stated limits is unwarranted.
.
.
so..
If we as visitors, can follow the rules, and the moderator can be more open and tollerant of activity here, things will be fine and Holly can be proud of her replacement.


-Dil

ahartman
23rd September 2000, 12:58
Why, oh why, can't we just relax and enjoy TSB?

Kaj, you're doing nothing but trying to divide the group. Joel is the mod. Period.

Anything that goes on between any members of this forum is BETWEEN THOSE MEMBERS. Don't inject yourself into the mix.

I was just starting to think we'd begun the growing-up process, but then lots of people jump in and reopen the old wounds.

STOP IT. It's not constructive, funny, or anything else that TSB should be for.

If you don't like the way things are being run, please don't try to aggrevate the situation. If you have a constructive suggestion, send it to Joel DIRECTLY. Don't whine about it here, please.

PLEASE, everyone, relax, and enjoy your time here. Contrary to popular belief, this is not OUR Soapbox - it's Ant's. I'm getting close to wondering if he should blow it away, since some of us can't be adults in here...

Admiral
23rd September 2000, 17:10
There's still one thing I don't understand.
Why did she have to resign and not "hire" a deputy to keep things clean till she got back ?

About Joel's moderation, his methods are a bit too brutal, not that I don't like discipline but this is hardly the forum for it. Under Holly we enjoyed our freedom, everyone could post whatever passed through his mind and if the others liked it, they posted in that thread, if not, the thread would have died by itself. Bringing back an old thread is something usual and as I said before, it would die by itself after a few days if others don't like it or when they get bored of it.
If we can't have fun and let ourselves loose in the Soap Box than where should we ? in Matrox Hardware ?
I agree, there are limits, but between Holly's limits and Joel's I'd choose Holly's http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Joel
23rd September 2000, 17:20
At every party there has to be certian rules or someone may get hurt. Just keep offering suggestion rather than comparing or belittling me and I will take everything into advisement.

Joel

Rags
23rd September 2000, 17:33
It doesn't look like you guys either:
a)remember Holly's first month here
or
b)weren't around when Holly became the moderator of the box.

In either case, either give him some suggestions, as I said here (http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000853.html), or shut up and keep your bitching and complaining to yourself.

Rags

Kaj
23rd September 2000, 17:40
Well, I surely stirred things up around here. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif
I'm not trying to divide the group; why should I? That's a ridicoulous thought IMHO.

I'm a admin myself on quite a large forum in the Netherlands, so despite of my mini-ness, I tend to think that I know how to run a public forum.
The fact that I'm a mini over here, doesn't mean a darn thing! http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/frown.gif It's just a sign that I'm new to the software, and doesn't say a thing about my capabilities.

Ok, with that out of the way, my next point: I know that Joel isn't Holly and never will be. But posting something like <a href="http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000797.html" target="_blank">this</a> comes to me as if a new sergeant is adressing his troops.
TSB is a forum for the off-topic discussions and "the old rubbish", with a little joke or rant now and then. A moderator like Joel might be better off with a forum like The MURC's Happy Shopper or General Hardware, because the right/wrong-issue is more clear over there.

Let me get this clear; I don't think that Joel isn't a good Moderator, I only think that TSB isn't the right forum for him.

Rags
23rd September 2000, 17:56
*Sigh* I really wonder about people sometimes. *shakes Head*

Greebe
23rd September 2000, 18:00
Kaj, Like Rags has tried to say so diligently before, he's new on the job so cut him some slack. Just because your an admin elsewhere doesn't mean squat here. I'm not saying anything negative by saying either. You don't know caca when it comes to how these forums are run. If it wasn't for the way they are, most wouldn't be here or have found this place home. However in this forum, the FACT remains, Holly did have a bumpy start, and for what ever real reason for her leaving doesn't matter now. It happened, there was a loss and now we have to get on with life. That's reality. Joel is here now and we'll have to put up with his mistakes, just as we do with anyone else who is new. Holly settled in well, as I'm sure Joel will do also. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Admiral
23rd September 2000, 18:00
I have nothing against you Joel. For Matrox Gaming or General and Matrox Hardware you would be a great moderator (no offence to Kruzin). For the Soap Box you'll just have to learn a bit and being opened for suggestions is a good thing http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Suggestions:

Well, pretty much what Rags said in another thread. Instead of closing or deleting entire threads just edit the "offending" posts.
About bringing back old threads, let them die by themselves, they won't last more than a week.
Oh, if an old thread causes a chain reaction, than yes, you should lock some of the threads. Keep the first two and lock the others.
A bit more tolerance, filling us with bullets is not the way http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

I'm in favour of creating a new guide that should be updated periodically. As problems arise we should sit down discuss solutions, together, Admin, mods and users (on TSB or Site Feedback) and make new rules that would try to prevent the problems from repeating. Each update to the guide should be announced on MURC's fornt page http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Kaj
23rd September 2000, 18:17
Originally posted by Greebe:Just because your an admin elsewhere doesn't mean squat here.
Nope, I know, but IMO it is an indication of someones knowledge on how to pick the right mod for the right forum, and that's why I brought it up.


Joel is here now and we'll have to put up with his mistakes, just as we do with anyone else who is new. Holly settled in well, as I'm sure Joel will do also.
I hope so, but Joel; don't go in with a blunt axe rightaway, and cut us some slack too? Please?

Rags
23rd September 2000, 18:25
Mmmmmfff...gggg..ralflflfl..fffff..smmmmgggfff.... OH ALRIGHT I CAN'T LEAVE IT AT THAT.

You know what? I thought I was being nice by starting a suggestion thread, and even asking nicely for helpful comments, but apparently blockheads like you can't get it through your skull that you aren't helping things by just going off on somebody. Now, you've gone and put me into debate mode, I hope you are freakin' happy now.


Since Holly left as Mod, things haven't been the same in TSB.
Judging from your registration date, you would have hardly any idea of how Holly moderates. She has been without internet connection for most of the time since you have been on this forum, and has been in a hard postition to moderate, so you have NO way of knowing how well or how poor she moderates.


I'm a admin myself on quite a large forum in the Netherlands, so despite of my mini-ness, I tend to think that I know how to run a public forum.
What the hell does this have to do with the price of tea in China? Shut up before I get MY boomstick out and smack you with it. If you had any leadership skills at all, you would try to be helpful. Calling mutiny is NOT HELPFUL, GET IT?



But posting something like this comes to me as if a new sergeant is adressing his troops.
There is nothing wrong with what was said in that (http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000797.html) thread. I think he was doing that as an open invitation to quiz him and get to know how he will moderate this place, but apparently the more paranoid of us don't see it that way.


I'm not trying to divide the group; why should I?
Like I said above, calling mutiny is not a good thing, and it will only cause unrest. Why should you? I don't know, but it sure wasn't a nice thing to do.


TSB is a forum for the off-topic discussions and "the old rubbish", with a little joke or rant now and then.
Well, I do believe that there are rules to this forum, and just because the topic is the soap box, and any old rubbish, doesn't mean you don't have to follow the rules. It looks like Ant agrees, because he sees a need for an additional moderator here, as well as the other forums.


A moderator like Joel might be better off with a forum like The MURC's Happy Shopper or General Hardware, because the right/wrong-issue is more clear over there.
Where he moderates is not an issue. And you certainly have no clue as to where he should moderate, and how he moderates. Joel has been here longer than 99.9 percent of us. Ant has known Joel for a long time, and knows how he is and must believe in him, so why not give Ant the benefit of the doubt?


Let me get this clear; I don't think that Joel isn't a good Moderator,
Good, then let's start helping the guy out, so he can find a better way of maintaining this zoo here.


Well, I surely stirred things up around here.
That's an understatement, but you aren't the only one holding the blame. Let's try to get back to having "normal" discussions.

I can't believe how low some of the members of this forum have stooped in the last month. Some of you have pre-conceived idea of how Joel is, judging from only a few posts where he was very much opinionated, and had some unpopular beliefs exposed (Pirating music, pirating software, state flags, and others). It's just sickening that all you guys can do is continue to whine *whaaaaaaaahhhhhh where is Holly? whaaaaaahhhhh*. You are just not used to having a moderator in this forum, that's all. I already started a thread to share my views on how Joel is moderating, and left it open for discussion on giving some ideas for Joel to mull over. I know he will listen, but you have to give him a chance. Whining and bitching will get you no where...believe me.

Rags


[This message has been edited by Rags (edited 24 September 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Rags (edited 24 September 2000).]

Joel
23rd September 2000, 18:27
No, I will be sure to sharpen it first. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

You know Kaj, Rags is right. There are only two other ppl on this forum that have been here longer than I have. Ant the owner of this forum and Flangor Strongaxe the original admin/moderator.

Joel http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif



[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 24 September 2000).]

DuRaNgO
23rd September 2000, 18:32
Thank You

Now please, everyone post a funny http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif or stupid :P thread and get on with your lives
jim

or else...
http://home.att.net/~albpm2/cowboy.gif

Kaj
23rd September 2000, 18:32
Rags-> check your mail

Rags
23rd September 2000, 18:39
Kaj,

No, check your email. I would like to post what you wrote to me, do I have your permission to cut and paste it, and my response? I see no reason for not debating this in an open forum.

Rags

Kaj
23rd September 2000, 18:50
Well, I thought that it was inappropriate to keep picking at this after it escalated, but...


Read my first post in that thread, and you may start
to understand.
--- Kaj Schulten <kajcom@cistron.nl> wrote:
> But since TSB has been shaken up all too well, I'll
> do this by e-mail.
>
> [ quote]
> Judging from your registration date, you would have
> hardly any idea of how Holly moderates. She has been
> without internet connection for most of the time
> since you have been on this forum, and has been in a
> hard postition to moderate, so you have NO way of
> knowing how well or how poor she moderates.
> [/ QUOTE]
>
> And what has my registrationdate to do with this
> issue? What makes you think that that date is the
> first date I showed up at MURC?


On wich I replied:
No, I don't remember Holly's first month as a mod. But does it matter?
You're stating something that you can't check, and that's why I wanted to
know.

[This message has been edited by Kaj (edited 24 September 2000).]

Rags
23rd September 2000, 19:12
This is the email I recieved:

But since TSB has been shaken up all too well, I'll do this by e-mail.

quote
Judging from your registration date, you would have hardly any idea of how Holly moderates. She has been without internet connection for most of the time since you have been on this forum, and has been in a hard postition to moderate, so you have NO way of knowing how well or how poor she moderates.
/quote

And what has my registrationdate to do with this issue? What makes you think that that date is the first date I showed up at MURC?


I responded with:

Read my first post in that thread, and you may start
to understand.

His reply was:

No, I don't remember Holly's first month as a mod. But does it matter?
You're stating something that you can't check, and that's why I wanted
to
know.

And I responded with something like (I don't remember word for word):


If you read what you quoted, you will see that I said "Judging by...". This means assuming, guessing, making an educated guess. Anyhow, you obviously only remember the period of no moderation, when Holly would rarely posted at all....

I stand by what I posted, and see no reason for feeling sorry at all for anything I said. You surely don't remember Holly's first two months moderating here, and don't remember Kruzin's first month moderating. Both recieved quite a bit of back-lash and had to settle in before they got the hang of it. But, I can't remember anyone calling for their removal at all, and surely not before they had a chance.

Narrow mindedness and ignorance are the leading causes for violence and tensions in the world. If people would be more free to open their minds and offer help, rather than shoot first and ask questions later, then this world would be a much much nicer place.

Rags

Kaj
23rd September 2000, 19:26
Originally posted by Rags:
If people would be more free to open their minds and offer help, rather than shoot first and ask questions later, then this world would be a much much nicer place.You took the words right out of my keyboard...
Couldn't have said it better. Now read my posts again, and you see what I mean.
And please don't throw with blockhead-like terms again; that's doing this discussion not any good...

Rags
23rd September 2000, 19:32
Hey, pal, I offered some really good advice first. And then again, then yet again. You seemed to ignore it and keep the flames lit, all the while talking out the side of your mouth. You have offered nothing to help joel. All you have done is call for overthrowing him, and that is totally wrong. Show me where my posts were blockhead-like. I broke down your comments into direct quotes, and put my response to each of them, and added my editorial. Now, if you would like to debate what I have said and what I have suggested, then I am always cool with a good debate. But you had better bring your debating skills with you.

Rags

Muad'Dib
23rd September 2000, 19:32
Ok, haveing been asked by a couple people to comment on this, I will add my "not-so-useful-opinion."

I'm not a newbie by any means, but I'm also not particularly old here either. I've known Holly's style for running this bored from when I first started here (from what I remmeber). We've all adjusted to that and have become accustomed to the relative "free reigns" she gave us. With Joel as mod now, we need to a.) relearn what the new boundaries are and b.) give him some time to adjust to his new position of power. I think once everyone has reacclimated to this change it will start to go back to the old tsb.

How many of you have experienced the changing of a boss at work or something to that effect!?! You all know that things change and that the beginning is the hardest time of it. It's like kids testing the limits. I think right now we're all testing what is and what is not acceptable.

Give it time people. I have not been around much lately so I don't know particularly how things are around here, but I'm sure after a month or two of adjustments everything will turn out fine.

As too bringing back Holly, that is her decision and I don't think I (or really any of us) have any influence in these matters.

Joel, from what I can tell dood, you're doin fine. Good luck.

Dimitri

KvHagedorn
23rd September 2000, 19:35
Rags is right, guys. Just be patient. Joel isn't Ghengis Khan here, really. Holly and Kruzin were rough around the edges when they started, and both received a lot of flak for that. I think for anyone to volunteer his time to moderate a forum is someone to be appreciated, not scorned, and anyone who is mature enough to understand knows that they all go through a "rookie cop" stage.

Calm down.

------------------
Kind Regards,

KvH

Admiral
23rd September 2000, 19:36
"shoot first and ask questions later"

Hmm, seems to me that's what Joel did with the "Oh, No!" thread, thus the hostile reaction, not only from new, but also from old members.

Joel
23rd September 2000, 19:39
Hey Kaj,

Aren't you forgetting one very important factor in this equation, ME? Isn't what matters, is how I feel about your post? And I do not view them as being constructive at all.

Joel http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/frown.gif

Rags
23rd September 2000, 19:41
You are correct, Admiral, and I am sure that Joel knows he shot his sixer a little early...actually I know he does.

But from day one, you have been a bit less than hospitable towards Joel. You fit into the category of having a pre-conceived notion of how Joel's moderatership would be, and that is unfortunate. Let's be open minded, and try to help the guy, not blast him into the bed of coals. Take a look at my "Yanky My Wanky" Thread, and post some ideas for the guy. It'll make you feel better, and it will definitely help. I know he is open to suggestions, like I said before.

Rags

Kaj
23rd September 2000, 19:41
Rags-> Ease up, will you!? I was referring to this:

You know what? I thought I was being nice by starting a suggestion thread, and even asking nicely for helpful comments, but apparently blockheads like you can't get it through your skull that you aren't helping things by just going off on somebody.

Kaj
23rd September 2000, 19:44
Originally posted by Joel:
Hey Kaj,

Aren't you forgetting one very important factor in this equation, ME? Isn't what matters, is how I feel about your post? And I do not view them as being constructive at all.

Joel http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/frown.gif No, I don't. And that's why I wanted to discuss this with Rags by e-mail.

Rags
23rd September 2000, 19:46
Fair enough. I was very riled up when I posted. If you have been following these forums as long as you are suggesting you have, you would know that I was actually being very cotton-like in my postings. I usually don't restrain from using more descriptive language when describing someone I am peeved at. Ask anyone, they will tell you I can be rather straight forward when it comes to posting.

Rags

Joel
23rd September 2000, 19:54
And that's why I wanted to discuss this with Rags by e-mail.

Oh, that makes it all better knowing that you would do it behind my back instead of to my face. Nice!

Joel

Kaj
23rd September 2000, 19:55
Originally posted by Rags:
Fair enough. I was very riled up when I posted. If you have been following these forums as long as you are suggesting you have, you would know that I was actually being very cotton-like in my postings. I usually don't restrain from using more descriptive language when describing someone I am peeved at. Ask anyone, they will tell you I can be rather straight forward when it comes to posting.

Rags

And that's what I like in someone who knows where he/she stands for.
I don't remember when I first came across MURC, I registered because of the "hacking-debacle" which occurred a few months ago, and I felt the need to clear our boards name, since the "hacker", as he likes to call himself, was a regular from our board.

But let's put this aside...

Kaj
23rd September 2000, 19:59
Originally posted by Joel:
Oh, that makes it all better knowing that you would do it behind my back instead of to my face. Nice!

Joel
Maybe I wasn't clear enough; I was referring to the fact that Rags was mentioning my mini-ness as a reason not to mingle in something like this. I felt that it had nothing to do with the discussion, so I suggested to clear that up via e-mail.

[This message has been edited by Kaj (edited 24 September 2000).]

Admiral
23rd September 2000, 20:03
Rags, I'm very sensitive to change. And this change from a tolerant mod to a not so tolerant mod in a forum that is supposed to be tolerant had it's effects.
I've been here when TSB was created, as I recall it was twards the end of November 1999.

Let's face it, Joel needed such a confrontation to make things straight between him and the people he's moderating.

Joel
23rd September 2000, 20:08
Maybe I wasn't clear enough

Well there we have it. I think this whole thing started because of a misunderstanding on your part of something I wrote. And instead of asking me what I meant, you immediately called for my resignation. Am I not right?

Joel

Jorden
23rd September 2000, 20:16
Originally posted by SwAmPlAdY:
If Jorden wasn't so selfish, no one here would be whining at Joel becuase all Jorden had to do was to let Holly use his Pc.

But nooooooooooooo, Jorden does not believe in sharing with his wife.

tsk tsk tsk

SwAmPy

Dear Swampy,

Holly was using my PC, after she took her own PC apart. She had all the options and possibilities to get online, but she didn't. Why? Because we don't have flatrate telephone rates here in Holland, so we pay by the minute which gives me a large phone-bill every 2 months. What is large? How does it sound to you if you had a phonebill of 450 to 500 dollars every 2 months? That's why she let go of the internet, that's why even I let go of the internet! I try to be online about 1 hour a day, and somewhat more during the weekends.

Now that she has her own PC again, with thanks to Paulcs for that, you might see her posting more on these fori again, if that's what you want.
<hr>
Joel: Pity you took it as a personal attack http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/frown.gif I never meant to do so, and I must say I was quite drunk as well. I don't know how I got into bed, but I do know I solved Holly's problem with her PC, and I wonder how I got that post on the other page without too many mistakes http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Jord.

[This message has been edited by Jorden (edited 24 September 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Jorden (edited 24 September 2000).]

ahartman
23rd September 2000, 20:26
Everyone, please drop this. If you have something constructive to add, please address Ant or Joel directly.

I wanted to let everyone know I asked Ant to step into this because it's getting out of hand.

Again I say, these are NOT *your* forums. They are Ant's. He has faith in Joel to moderate them as he thinks they should be moderated.

For the last 2 months or so, everyone's been very tense. I took Dimi's Joke thread as a sign things were returning to normal.

Admiral, the problem with the Oh No threads was that nearly a dozen were brought back up at once. That's just inconsiderate to the rest of us who like to converse in this forum.

At any rate, everyone please take a step back, TAKE A DEEP BREATH, and try to be silly, funny, or clever.

It's much better, IMO than all this bickering.

Rags
23rd September 2000, 20:27
Admiral,

You didn't even know how tolerant he was going to be, and you started making waves. So don't even try to start that. Like I said before, level-headed discussion is the way to get things done. Confrontation only causes hate and discontent. I don't think this was healthy at all. And I could see this coming, that's why I posted a casual suggestion thread. But I didn't see your participation there.

Just to refresh your memory: here are some of Holly's greatest hits:
This is where she was censoring a Web Washer program, the link provided by Kruzin. (http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000042.html)

Here is where she locked a thread because of a lot of nonsense was being exchanged, and offered alternative forms of communicating. (http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000034-3.html)
Also there are other threads that were completely nuked by her in her first few weeks. I remember very clearly how she was having a hard time.
Kruzin went through the same crap. He locked, deleted, and edited some stuff he probably shouldn't have, and people complained. But I see no complaining now.

Rags



[This message has been edited by Rags (edited 24 September 2000).]

Joel
23rd September 2000, 20:30
So you were PUI - Posting Under the Influence. Tsk Tsk. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif Don't you know that you should have a designated poster when you are like that. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Joel http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

motub
23rd September 2000, 20:34
If anyone cares what I actually think about any of this, you could read this post (http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000858.html).

But you all seem to be having such a good time fighting over some <u>idea</u> of me I certainlyn wouldn't want to distract you with my actual presence.

So carry on, if you must... I'm to bed.

---------------------
Holly

Jorden
23rd September 2000, 20:37
LOL Joel, I wonder when the Dutch baseball team actually plays against the Americans http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

SwAmPlAdY
23rd September 2000, 20:40
Once again jordan and the mistress have failed to see a joke. Next time I will add that smiley face for you 2 to get it http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

SwAmPy

[This message has been edited by SwAmPlAdY (edited 24 September 2000).]

Admiral
23rd September 2000, 20:57
Well Rags, you're all too tolerant and the fact that you're tolerating nonsense from youngsters like me prooves it http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif
I've been to hasty in judging Joel and I would like to apologize. I'm sorry Joel, I really am http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Thanks for the second link Rags, gave me an idea http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif

Helevitia
23rd September 2000, 20:58
lol! PUI! haha http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif I'm sure we will see plenty of posts regarding that little comment for many threads to come.

I keep reading all of this crap that everone is posting and realized that.....I need a beer http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif I'm glad it is still legal to PUI because I do it all the time http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Greebe
23rd September 2000, 21:09
ROTFLMAO!!!

SwAmPlAdY
23rd September 2000, 21:45
I think you have a typo Paul. The "i" belongs before the "t", not after it http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

SwAmPy

paulcs
23rd September 2000, 21:50
[Edit: I figured out what PUI was, and deleted my post. Then SwAmPlAdY responded, so I am reposting. This post should be before SwAmPlAdY's, and not after.]

Dave, Mike, what's PUI?

I'm a little dense about this sort of thing. In 1995, I thought Tia was this woman who hung out on the same newsgroups as I did and asked lots of stupid questions. I imagined Lol was her perennially amused boyfriend. They were my favorite Internet couple: LOL and TIA. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 24 September 2000).]

Helevitia
23rd September 2000, 23:28
Paul,

look up at Joel's last post. PUI=Posting under the influence http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Dave

Vlip
24th September 2000, 00:50
Ok boys, I have been around those forums since my millennium 1. In the good old day were flangor axe was flying in the air.
That's to make my legitimation to speak in this thread even if I didn't post a lot.

I do remember the first days of Holly as a mod. It was, as some said, quite exagerated also. But what she achieved was to learn how to get us in line, I do believe Joel will get it sooner or later.

It really is like when a new Sergeant-Major enters in your unit, the first few months the beds are flying because the room aren't clean enough, guys are going to jail for stupidities and so on. After a few months everything settles up and the Sergeant Major is tired of being a bitch [Joel, do not think I'm telling you are a bitch!!!].

So please let it down, wait a month or two and then if you're not happy complain again.
Now you are only fedding up this poor Joel, and even in this case fedding me up.
So please shut up!

And for Holly being again a mod, that's the least I could hope for her, I miss her, not as a mod, but simply as a poster. I hope you Jord are taking good care of her http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

So Joel, my advices are the same as most you already got, edit posts instead of locking thread and so on... But what could make the difference would maybe be a little bit of humour when you edit/lock something, sometimes it makes the pill easyer to swallow.
Good luck in your difficult duty.


------------------
"Il est toujours intéressant de parler avec quelqu'un d'intelligent"
Dostoïevski

AMD Athlon 500(@750), Asus K7M, 196Mb PC100 SDRAM, Matrox G400MAX, Sb Live and a lot more toys and gadgets.

Kaj
24th September 2000, 04:28
Maybe I wasn't clear enough

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well there we have it. I think this whole thing started because of a misunderstanding on your part of something I wrote. And instead of asking me what I meant, you immediately called for my resignation. Am I not right?

Joel



Well, I tend to think that my messages where _clear_ enough, and it looks like twisting words here; so I'm NOT touching this one.
If you still don't know what I meant, I'd suggest you read the thread again.

I surely did (after a good night sleep), and since there was a call for advise (a rather loud one, I might add http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif), I'll give you one: Don't team up with someone! You've got a Mod-tag hangin' to your name, and that gives you responsibilities. The moment that you as Joel:Moderator teamed up with Rags, the moderator of The Soap Box was no longer available, and nowhere to be seen.
That's why I have two nicknames on the board I'm Admin of; one "Admin-nick" and one as a "normal" user, en I think that's why Holly has two nicks as well.
And I suggest, if you want to keep ventilating your own opinion, that you get one too.
Regards, Kaj.

[Note: this was intended as an email towards Joel, but later on, I thought that it was better to post it here.]

Joel
24th September 2000, 07:38
Kaj,

First off misunderstanding in a forum can happen very easily because there is so much more to communications that just the printed word. There is tone and infliction in our voices, body language, general knowledge of who the speaker is and other things.

Secondly, I did not team up with Rags. He has his own opinions and I have mine. Unfortunately both of those opinions did not agree with yours so therefore it seemed as if we were teaming up.

Thridly, I don't believe in having a second nic just because I am a mod. Kruzin doesn't do it, Ant doesn't do it, and as far as I know none of the others do it either. Holly can even tell you that I don't like that idea. I am who I am and even though I am a moderator I still am entitled to my own opinion. The task that I have before me is to not allow my emtion to determine my actions as moderator. I'm sure I will make mistake but that will be part of the learning process. As a former boss once told me "we don't make mistake we create learning opportunities".

And fourthly, man this is taking up more of my spare time than I thought it would. But I'm sure that will settle out just like everything else will with time.

Joel

Helevitia
24th September 2000, 10:51
Kaj,

The more I read your threads, the more irritated I get. Basically I think your a whiny little idiot and you continue to make uncalled for comments towards Joel. I don't care how long you've been coming around the forums, I surely have never seen you post anything of importance and you continue to make assumptions that make you look even more stupid. Why don't you drop this whole BS and let Joel do his job. God! Talk about draggin this thing out. You'd think he shot someone. Hell! This is probably the best forum on the net and when somebody actually wants to keep it at a level where kids can join and and participate on a semi-intelligent level, people bitch about that too! So which is it? I personally think that these public attacks are crap and Kaj should have emailed Joel privately and gave him his constuctive opinion that way or at the very least, realize that Joel has been around and well respected enough that if you do post something here then it holds that same respect. AARRRGGGHHHH!!! ahh, I feel better already http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Dave

Kaj
24th September 2000, 11:57
I seem to send a lot of e-mails these days...

Can we end this nonsense? Is it pick-on-the-blasted-mini-time again? Or is it just me...

The start of this thread was a bit of a wake-up call, which escalated beyond proprotions. If you want to keep roasting me on Joel's BBQ, fine. But let's keep it out of TSB.

Kaj
24th September 2000, 12:01
Hey, you know what? I'm gonna do what I've been doing the last few months around here: Lurk the MURC. And gee, maybe I'll post something supportive...
But I'm REALLY getting sick of this.

Rags
24th September 2000, 12:09
Best thing I have heard yet http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Paddy
25th September 2000, 02:18
I have been visiting these forums for about 12mths now (not that you could tell by the quality of my posts!) So just imagine my shock when I come back from a weekend break to find that a small-scale war has broken out.
Now I too have been asked to comment on this issue, but given the last few posts perhaps I am too late…

I can’t really see what the fuss is all about. As far as I can tell Holly has left the Soap Box because she doesn’t feel that she can commit enough of her time to moderate it. And lets be honest, we are a full time job!

I know a lot of people want Holly back (and most haven’t consulted her about it) but the fact is – she has gone.

I am not saying that I don’t want her to come back – in fact nothing brightened up my Monday mornings more than reading about her dodging the weekends flak. But its time to move on. And come on, its not like loosing a family member, those of you who feel that they can’t cope, probable spend too much time on the net.

Joel is now in charge, and I can think of nobody more qualified. Has anyone stopped to think about how much we are probably hurting his feelings? This can’t be nice…

Holly: If you want to come back I am not going to object! http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Joel: As far as I am concerned you now hold the reins and I am behind you all the way! http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Kaj: A lot of people thin that you are hardly qualified to comment on this and from reading your posts they do seem aggressive. Your number of posts has nothing to do with this, but perhaps your time on the forums have. Perhaps its time to keep quiet for a bit?

Remember: this is a Matrox forum, and it’s a family forum. At the end of the day, does this really matter? Lets all try and behave!

- Sorry if that wasn’t the comment you wanted!

Patrick

<font size=3> http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif BE HAPPY! http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif BE HAPPY! http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif BE HAPPY! http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif</font>

HedsSpaz
25th September 2000, 08:11
I have been visiting these forums for about 12mths now (not that you could tell by the quality of my posts!) So just imagine my shock when I come back from a weekend break to find that a small-scale war has broken out.

LOL, that mirrors my experience almost exactly Patrick. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Now seriously everyone, it looks like this is starting to wind down, which is a good thing. In hopes to aide this proccess, I'm going to suggest that no one post any more inflamatory/argumentative/or otherwise dissentive comments in this thread. It's time to relax and let things return to a state of simulated normality.

A brief comment though, I too remember the creation of the TSB, and I remember the rocky start Holly had. It happens, people continually go through a process of maturation. Everyday we learn something new, and learn just a little bit better how to behave and how to get along with other people, and we make mistakes. Thats part of life. Let it pass, and in the future, try and remember that being calm and rational will win out over brash emotion.

Ian
Who has noticed that everytime he leaves for the weekend, all hell breaks loose on the fori(last time I left for the weekend, we had that hacker incident).

P.S. I'm going to be out of town again this weekend, I'd rather not come back to see WWIII got started here.

Ant
26th September 2000, 13:35
I don't know I get laid up with an injured back and taken away by work committments, come back here and just look at you all. I seem to remember Holly getting quite a bit of stick when she first took over as a moderator, as did Kruzin, as did Jorden so I assume its just a murc tradition. Holly did a great job and I'm so grateful for all of her hard work, however for her own reasons she decided it was time to step down. I asked Joel to help me and and he accepted, he's now the moderator, instead of attacking just try to work work things out like the happy bunch of murcers we all are usually.

The idea of the soap box was that it would house the off topic chat that tended to clog up other forums, it is not and never was meant to be a place for people to spout forth any form of abuse or vent their anger. Sure have fun thats is what the murc is all about. Now all of you get along before I rip your frelling heads off http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Pace
26th September 2000, 18:27
And another guy who's been away for a few days. I'll start off with 2 bad points for Joel.

First, I agree with one part of Kaj's original post: "a bit too seriously"
My view on this was that since he became a mod he has imposed himself a little too much.

Which makes up part of my 2nd point is that he has started bad.

However, I think he will be ok in the long run! He's willing to learn and change his influence I think which should help a lot. He's took a lot of flak - too much I think but I believe he's open to suggestions (correct me if I'm wrong).

And finally, nothing particularly to do with Joel but I was looking for a clarification of what is allowable in TSB - both Ant/Joel are requested for comments here but also what other's would like.

My personal opinion is similar to Joel's I think: no racism or extreme illegal activities. I don't really mind racism personally even though I wouldn't use it (if that's the term). However, I hate torturing, suffering or death - child porn, sick pictures et al I wouldn't like here.

I think racist comments do hurt people but I don't think they should. If someone calls me a tight Scot I get annoyed - but not hurt. A comment about another race/religion etc shouldn't really hurt anyone - just ignore it I say. However I accept that this is a touchy subject and that others would not like it here.

The final consideration is children. The world is getting pretty messed up (no expletive here!) and I think we really should increase censorship efforts. Violence is getting worse, people are less friendly, poverty no closer to being fixed, drugs, guns...

Maybe too many topics for this thread - say Joel - wan't to separate out my topics http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Hehe, just kidding, Paul!

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Rags
26th September 2000, 18:36
What's a "frelling"???

Joel
26th September 2000, 21:58
I think there are alot of ppl here who will agree, that there comes a point in time when we just have to except things the way they are and move on. This petition as such is one of those things. This arguement over Holly coming back as Mod was settled when she stated...


I'm glad that you appreciated my tenure, but IT IS OVER. And I love you guys, but I do not like being told what I am to do when I have other ideas.

In so saying, I feel that this thread is doing nothing at this time except to get ppl worked up over something that will not happen. So therefore at this time I am putting the lock on this thread.

As for me, I am open to constructive comments or suggestions which can be posted in the following thread. forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000853.html (http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000853.html) I will be reading that thread and taking everything into consideration as I continue as Moderator of this forum.

In closing I would like to offer this little bit of advice. "Never under any circumstances take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night." http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif


Joel http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif