If you have problems with NS...

[Greebe]

I'd suggest DLing version 4.74!
It has fixed 99% of the problems I've had.

[Helevitia]

It still has the memory leak I've seen since 4.x was released.(which is the biggest problem I think). Does it fix the Java problems?

Dave

[RoGuE]

If you're having problems with Netscape, I'd recommend using IE5

Just kiddin'

[Chris Blake]

Which problems does it resolve? Does it make it a good browser. God knows it never will be, have you seen NS6.?.?. WTF is that all about???

Don't bite, it's an old argument.

IE5 rocks BTW.

Hey RoGuE: Hello to a fellow Derbyshire lad (or lass)

[RoGuE]

Greetings fellow Derbyshire bloke (yes I am a bloke ).

Chris.

(yes we have the same name also ).

[Rohde]

Greebe : If Netscape 4.74 fixes 99% of your problems it must be a lot better than 6.0, 'cause that fixes about 10%.

Since Chris Blake said "Don't bite, it's an old argument" I won't make further arguments

Torben

[Gurm]

6.0 not only fixes 10% of the problems in version 4... it introduces hundreds more!

Hahahaha!

No, seriously - the only problem I have with Netscape is that it sucks. Both figuratively and literally. Figuratively, it sucks in that it is just a piss-poor 2nd rate browser that was hobbled together from NS3 (a good browser) in response to IE4 (a mediocre browser) and is no contest for IE5 (also a good browser).

Literally, it sucks memory. And since this bug wasn't fixed in 4.74, I wonder what bugs WERE fixed in 4.74?

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[The PIT]

I wonder why they haven't fixed that leak it's been around long enougth. So long Yorkshire water would have been proud of it.

[SteveC]

I wonder how many people just went - wtf is he on about 'yorkshire water'??
We're not all from the UK! (but I am!)

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Cheers,
Steve

"Life is what we make of it, yet most of us just fake"

[Gurm]

Do you want an honest answer to why they haven't fixed the memory leak?

I honestly think it's a combination of several things:

1. Incompetence - their best programmers are of course working on their money-making products. Their corporate servers and the like. Netscape has NEVER made money on Navigator. Ever. It's always been something of a loss for them. And whatever talent is left over is working on Mozilla... NOT NC4.x

2. Lack of Interest - they know they're fighting a losing battle for the windows platform with IE. The other platforms don't have anywhere NEAR as many problems. In fact, most of the other platforms are almost entirely bug-free. I'm surprised that they even still release browsers for the windows platform. There are precious few new features, just more bugs each time.

3. The same reason that Microsoft hasn't fixed the memory leaks in IE5. (You can find those by going to a public picture site like CDROM or something and doing "right-click, save as" on a hundred pictures in a row. Eventually your browser will sieze up!) And that is that for whatever reason, it's hard to find.

4. It "doesn't do it on their machines". This is a traditional problem for QA departments everywhere. The general computing public can make their product die every single time, but they can't replicate it, maybe because all their machines share a common configuration that eliminates the glitch, or for other reasons which are impossible to fathom. I recall working on a printer BIOS (and THAT is fun, let me tell you) once, and the QA people just couldn't reproduce a bug for me. So finally I went off-site, to a customer's facility, and said "SHOW ME". They did, and an hour or two later I was on my way to solving the problem. QA departments often are so mired in their own procedures that they can't reproduce bugs and problems.

5. They're morons.

6. NC4.x is a festering piece of crap! (Sorry, had to sneak that in there...)

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Greebe]

Gurm, it's nice to know that you just don't give a shit about anything that doesn't meet your analystic criteria. I posted this because there are millions of NS users that might be interested. Nothing more, nothing less. I have both installed because I have fiends that run sites and they try their best to make all things work regardless of browser software their visitors use.

Got it?!

Geesh, and we complain about mini's :\

[Gurm]

Greebe:

I'm being HONEST. Not biased. Netscape was the BEST BROWSER IN THE WORLD. Netscape 3 was in many ways superior to IE4.

Here's some background:

1992... there are exactly two browsers in the world. Mosaic (ick) and Netscape. Netscape is MUCH better, and therefore Mosaic fades into obscurity.

1995... Win95 is released. It has no web browser integrated. Soon after its release, Microsoft releases Internet Explorer 1. In comparison to Netscape 2, it sucks bigtime.

1996... NT4 is released. It has IE2 built in. This also sucks. Netscape 3 is either out or in beta, and it is very cool.

1997... IE3 is the first viable internet explorer. It's... ok. Still not as good as Netscape. Some like it better because it looks like Windows, but Netscape is faster and better still.

1998... Netscape begins to get worried. Internet Explorer 4 looks to be VERY nice. DHTML, ASP, Style Sheets, all kinds of cool stuff. And the ActiveX finally works correctly. They take the beta code for what would have been Netscape 4 (Netscape 3 Gold is still out and going strong) and hobble it together to release it immediately. BIG MISTAKE.

IE4 is substantially better than NS4. It is NOT substantially better than NS3, but soon NS3 support is dropped. NS4 has bugs - lots of them... it was nowhere NEAR ready for prime time.

Microsoft starts releasing patches, updates, and whatnot to IE4. Netscape feels compelled to do the same. They start suing Microsoft (the last ditch effort of the already beaten).

Now, the thing to bear in mind here is that IE4 WASN'T that much better than NS3 Gold. NS3 was smaller, faster, and rendered webpages much more accurately!

What happened, though, is that all support for NS3 was dropped in favor of "Communicator", which continued to grow in a horrid bloated fashion. Features were added haphazardly, and bugs were never fixed.

Now where in here all development dollars were diverted to Mozilla is unclear to me. But NS4 is big, bloated, and ugly compared to IE4 or IE5. It loads slowly, renders web pages slowly, and leaks memory like a sieve. In addition, its plugins are arcane and function nowhere near as smoothly as ActiveX.

And it isn't like Netscape can't USE ActiveX controls - but they have chosen not to, claiming the moral high road of "Open Source".

So don't go accusing me of playing favorites. My favorite browser is IE5, but a close second is NS3 Gold. And Opera would be nice if they ever finish it.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Greebe]

Gurm, you're still missing the point. 95% of those using NS are unaware that NS itself is the problem and with an installed base of millions using it, your point is moot.

BTW I remeber when it was good, you seem to think that most of us are either too dumb, ignorant, or haven't put the years in, as WE have.

[Gurm]

Greebe:

I know that you (and others) remember when NS3 was good. However, I include my little "history lessons" to help inform those on this board who don't. I'm not insulting you personally. Ok? Please understand that.

Also, I'm not missing the point. I'm informing (in an albeit initially very sarcastic way) the 95% of ignorant NS users that NS is their problem. This is the same group of people that thinks that it's "ok" for their web browser to crash their computer!

I'm not blindly evangelising Microsoft. I don't like Microsoft's software as much as I "tolerate" it because it's the often the lesser of two evils. Take Office for example - bloated, ugly, nasty. But a good sight better than the recent Lotus and WP suites, so... you take what you can get, yes?

Well, IE is much the same way - bloated, icky... but so much better than NS4 (and heaven help us Mozilla in its current incarnation - note I said current, since I think it has much potential if they fix the bugs and the interface issues) that it's worth using.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Helevitia]

OK, first off, what is considered "fixed" in 4.74? I didn't see a damn thing fixed. It crashes constantly(due to the memory leak) and Java is still broken. What did it fix for you Greebe?
Secondly, I don't understand why you are getting on Gurm's case? All he is doing is informing people how crappy NS is. I finally switched to IE about 3-4 weeks ago because NS gave me an exception that would not allow me access to my email anymore. This really pissed me off so I switched. Since I've switched I will say that IE is boatloads better than NS. I don't think anyone will deny this. I so much wanted to like and keep NS but it's over, they lost(in my eyes).

Dave