G200 output quality???

[KRSESQ]

I've been browsing the forum and haven't seen a problem quite like mine:...
I can capture video from a camcorder or vcr via PC-VCR no problem, and the capture quality is generally excellent. No video artifacts and the .AVI file plays perfectly in all apps I've tried.
However, when I try to output to the same vcr via Component out, the video quality is terrible. Poor contrast, washed out colors. Looks like at least three generations loss from computer to tape.
So, is this a problem with PC-VCR software, G200 card, BOB, or drivers, or just the nature of component out?
Most important, will I see a significant improvement by investing in a SVHS deck with S-video I/O? I'd like any and all insights before I shell out big bux for a new deck (which I'll probably end up doing anyway:P).
Thanx in advance.

[fluggo99]

Well, it could be a combo of your TV settings, the VCR you're recording on, and the TV-out settings on the card. Two of those I can help you fix:

<a href="http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002171.html">color correction</a>
These are the settings you should give your TV-out on the computer. You'll find them in PowerDesk.

Hmmm...darned if I can find the article about calibrating a TV. I think it's this www.henninger.com/test/bars.shtml listed in <a href="http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002210.html">Color Test Patterns?</a> (It appears to be a broken link.)

Oh, well... maybe a little bit of a solution.



[This message has been edited by fluggo99 (edited 08 February 2000).]

[Brent]

I found that if I output the MJPEG preview file, the quality to tape is good. If I save the project as an avi and output that to tape, the quality takes a dive. The VGA (AVI) output of the G200 also suffers from a green tinge on many earlier board revisions, but when I tried to get it replaced locally, the incompetent technician sent it back as is and told me to adjust the colour output. Tried for weeks to get Matrox to RMA, but never got a reply in spite of others here having success.

[wkulecz]

Brent,
It seems you can only get an RMA from Matrox by becomming an obnoxious jerk so they finally give you an RMA just to get rid of you!

My first Marvel G200 had an intermittent defect that caused the drivers to self destruct. When I finally got an RMA and replacement, it worked great out of the box until I went to make a tape. Could not output the color red -- turned them orange. Same song second verse, but the happy ending is after another round of nasty Emails I got another RMA, a replacement board, (but no BOB, another Email, a "we're sorry, its on its way" reply) and finally a working system.

Fluggo,
Maybe my system is not working 100% as designed, I find the Powerdesk-->Advanced-->TVout-->Color controls do nothing useful. Do you have to reboot after every change?

I did get a good calibration by tediously looking at camcorder output on my NTSC moniter, capturing a clip, playing it back on the NTSC monitor and tweaking the color settings in the capture utility; repeat until done. I had great match between capture overlay preview and camcorder on NTSC monitor from the get go, which is not so good now that I've set the calibration for good tape output, but I can live with it.

KRSESQ,
I was thinking of getitng an SVHS deck but have not, I need to distribute VHS so the only justification would be to make one SVHS "master" and dub the VHS copies from it. For me its easier (and cheaper!) to just record the output from the computer. When done I'll dump the projects to CR-R to free disk space and file away in case I need more copies at some latter date (unlikely).

I'm recording component out with results as good as one can expect from VHS. The only thing I noticed was you have to be careful of ground loops particulary if you have the rf out of the VCR hooked to the BOB. In fact If I remember correctly, I could only get good results on tape out by disconnecting the RF input on the BOB, but this could just be my particular VCR.

--wally.

[wkulecz]

Fluggo,

Yes I'm using a g200 Marvel.

You've certainly said a few things to pique my intrest.

The sliders do immediately "adjust" the color bars shown on the generated test pattern. But when I click OK and playback the previously captured MJPEG the composite output seems largely unchanged. Meaning anything noticible is always worse not better. The rather large changes from the defaults to the settings you suggest surprisingly had virtually zero net effect!

I'll have to play with this some more once I'm done with my current project.

Recording my D8 camcorder's composite output
directly to the VCR's composite input gives me the best quality VHS tape I've ever seen so if the marvel's output can match it I'm thrilled!

If I get the Marvel's composite out on my NTSC monitor (a seperate tube, with no tuner)
to match what the same monitor shows when playing the camcorder's output directly, I don't see how I can be too far wrong. The VHS tapes I've produced so far have been better that I thought possible, but I'd love a more direct calibration proceedure.

Where is this colorbar test pattern you mentioned in MSPRO5.2? My camcorder can't generate a colorbar test set.

I agree in a perfectly calibrated system what I see on the computer monitor should match what I output to tape and should match what the NTSC monitor shows directly from the camcorder, then any "corrections" will be as expected on output.

I'm happy with two out of three as long as the edited ouptut matches the camcorder original as, at least in my current two projects, I don't see any need for "correction" since I was able to light the scene with studio umbrellas and adjust the white balance before shooting.

Out of the box I had the wrong two out of three.

--wally.

[KRSESQ]

Never underestimate the power of updating drivers!
I downloaded the latest revisions of powerdesk, video tools, and dx7 and installed (I tend to procrastenate about such things) and set the output options as recommended. The improvement was immediate and pronounced. However, now I need to do some serious treaking of the PC-VCR input video levels. I found that at the default levels, the red and blue components were significantly darker than a comparison colorbar bitmap. (I created a bars.avi and output to tape using the new powerdesk settings, then played the tape back and attempted to set input levels accordingly. Always room for refinements.)

[wkulecz]

KRSESQ,

What are your "lattest" video tools and powerdesk driver numbers. I'm using PD 5.3 and VT 1.51 on my G200 marvel.

Components like DirectX7 I don't try on a whim as past versions definitely get you into reformat and reinstall windows if things go wrong.

What you say might motivate me to try after I finish my current project. I'm planning a move to win2000 soon anyway, so I can afford the risk.

--wally.

[fluggo99]

Colorbar test pattern is on the first CD of MSPro 5.2, \Samples\Veditor\Colorbar.bmp.

(oh, and i was guessing that the powerdesk you were using was the original, not your card a G200; my bad! either that, or I'm psychic)

[KRSESQ]

Wally:
Powerdesk ver. 5.41 and Video Tools ver. 1.52, both from Matrox.com. I was a little leary of going to Dx7 also, after some past problems mainly with games. But no probs so far.

Incidently, I noticed that my color output is richer looking if I bump up the output saturation to 160. Going out to VHS, even in SP, I need all the help I can get.

[This message has been edited by KRSESQ (edited 10 February 2000).]

[Michel Carleer]

I am new to this forum, so Hi you all.
For people needing some sort of calibration of their video chain: Have a look at VideoScope from Digital Media Works. I don't know how I could work without it. Very simple program, but it will allow you to calibrate your capture card, your TV out and your TV set by showing you the color vectors, the luma and chroma modulation. Go to www.DigitalMediaWorks.com and download it. It is well worth a try. And it works with the RR-G as well as the Marvel G400.
Michka