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View Full Version : Changing G400 DualHead to G400 MAX through pins



Wega
20th April 2001, 03:41
Hi all you murc'ers!

I've changed the clock frequences of my G400 DualHead to match a G400 MAX... the pins goes like this:

--

;MGA Bios Programming Utility v2.18.000d
;(C) Matrox Graphics Inc. (2001)
;
Fill: 0 127 0xFF
;Matrox G400 AGP
;VGA Enabled - BIOS V2.1

0 2 0x412e
2 1 0x80
3 1 0xff
4 2 0x0401
6 2 0xca93
8 2 0x0009
10 2 0x0300
12 16 'xxxxxxxx'
28 6 '104'
36 2 0xfff0
38 1 90
39 1 90
40 1 90
41 1 90
42 1 90
43 1 90
44 1 34
45 1 34
46 4 0
50 1 0x3f
51 1 0xff
52 1 0xff
53 1 0xc2
54 1 0xff
55 1 82
56 1 41
57 4 0x0190a419
61 4 0x24045491
65 1 150
66 1 75
67 4 0x019b8419
71 4 0x24045491
75 1 150
76 1 75
77 4 0x019b8419
81 4 0x24045491
85 1 0xff
86 2 0x0c88
88 2 0x0c88
90 1 0xee
91 2 0x2cfe
93 2 0xfff9

:filetype TOUCAN
:PCBinfo 906-01
:SubsystemVendorId 0x2179102b

--

The Information tab under Control Panel -> Display -> Settings -> Advanced shows that my maximum RAMDAC speed is 360 MHz. Also MGA Tweak tells me that my card is running 150 core/200 memory.

Is it possible to alter the pins further to make the card (and the drivers as well) think it is a G400 MAX? I figured it would be something like changing pin 61, 71 and 81 from 0x24045491 to 0x20049911, pin 10 from 0x0300 to 0x0700 as well as changing the SUBSYS_ID from 2179102b to 0x217D102b?

Best regards
Rene Pedersen

p3-800eb, asus p3v-4x, 256mb cas2 pc133, 32mb matrox millennium g400 dualhead, 20gb quantum fireball plus lm, 6x/32x pioneer dvd-a03s, sb live! value, 10/100mbit 3com 905b, 17" sony g200

Venturer
20th April 2001, 03:56
You need to change SUBSYS_ID value!
The MAX SUBSYS_ID is 217d while the G400 standard one is 2179

Edit your PINS and change SubsystemVendorId from 0x2179102b to 0x217d102b
Now your board should be recognized as G400MAX!

Venturer
20th April 2001, 05:08
I ve a G400MAX and in the info tab it says Millennium G400MAX AGP! I think video drivers "read" what type of board you have not only from the core freq and SUBSYS_ID but also from the video memory.
It s related to the board memory controller (PINS 61, 71, 81). Standard G400 uses 6ns SDRAM , while the MAX version have 5ns SGRAM. So you can t change PINS because they have different memory types.

Rags
20th April 2001, 10:15
Venturer, you are wrong. The standard G400 uses SGRAM as well, only some OEM cards used SDRAM.

Rags

Wega
20th April 2001, 16:42
Hi Venturer!

I've changed the SUBSYS_ID. I removed the Matrox Graphics Software from Windows 2000 and installed the drivers again. This time it recognized my card as a G400 DualHead MAX.

But in the Information tab it says:

Model: Matrox Millennium G400 AGP

Shouldn't it say Matrox Millennium G400 MAX AGP?

High_Jumbllama
24th April 2001, 07:01
Can this be done with a Marvel too?

Admiral
24th April 2001, 10:59
Can what be done with a Marvel too ?

You mean changing the clock and ramdac settings, I thinks you can.

Cyberdude
6th August 2001, 10:59
Where can i get the programs to do this stuff?
like MGA Bios Programming Utility v2.18.000d
and others?

George YS
10th August 2001, 02:05
Originally posted by Cyberdude
Where can i get the programs to do this stuff?
like MGA Bios Programming Utility v2.18.000d
and others?

The BIOS programming utility is included in the BIOS download from matrox, the dos programming utility included in 2.08 can NOT be run in windows, therefore u are better to find the 2.07 BIOS for its dos programming utility, which can be run under windows environment.

OZZIE_NO_GOOD
7th June 2002, 13:31
hello where can i change those pins ??? are they in the bios update files ???

Wombat
7th June 2002, 13:52
Why bother?

OZZIE_NO_GOOD
7th June 2002, 14:09
hihih stil got a g400 and there coming a new one so i can burn this one heheh and maybe it works hehe

Pegasus_gr
10th June 2002, 00:20
Could someone please expain me the whole process?
I've been using a G400 DH (not the MAX version) for almost three years now, mainly for productive work (photoshop, flash, dreamweaver, max 3D, etc) but I've played quite a lot of games (even the latest MOHAA, Renegade C&C, RTCW, Jedi II etc.) I have been using Matrox's own tech support tweak utility but I'd like to push the card a bit more before I replace it.
By following this process while my card perform like the MAX version? Will I need a fun for the chip?

I'm using W2K SP2 with all the latest Patches, Via chipset with the latest drivers, Beta 5.84 G400 drivers.

Thanks in advance.

P.S. Have been reading MURC forums for over a year now. Can be quite entertaining somtimes. Also I've learned a thing or two here.

gbm
10th June 2002, 10:17
Think twice before changing your G400 into MAX version. When you look at MAX, you'll se some difference from "classic" / the FAN!!!

While for most G400 boards it's possible to turn them into MAXes, you should complete the transformation by attaching a fan to the G400 chip heatsink.

OZZIE_NO_GOOD
10th June 2002, 13:07
wel okay my g400 isnt going for max mhz but i got no fan on it so is i put one on is it possible that i gat higher results ??? can someone tell me that else i going to buy one this weekend and pus my g400 to the max because a replacerer is on his way hehe geus which one that will be hehe

and another question where can i read my ramdac frequentie because i changed my pin nummmbers no it says in my info tab i got ramdac off 400 mhz max is that possible ???


ok i am off to my cold beer now and wait till the sun is going to sching and giving me that beautiful ph bla bla i find the name of the new card to hard get a new one please hehe lol its to hard after a few couple of beers

Pegasus_gr
11th June 2002, 00:26
Okay, I get the point about the fan, it's pretty obvious anyway. Can someone explain me the process to do it?!(Not how to install a fan but change my G400-->G400MAX)
Will I see any performance gain? Usually I'm playing games at 1024X768@16bit with most of the other settings set at highest level. In games like MOHAA for example, it was very dificult to aim or do anything (at the end of the game).

Thanks

George YS
11th June 2002, 02:31
First, u need to run this command to extract the pins of ur card:
progbios.exe -d>mypins.txt

Pins will be saved in mypins.txt, then use any text editor to edit it.
After u edited the file, flash it back to video bios using this command:
progbios.exe -i auto -s mypins.txt -k

The flash should be safe as I tried it a lot of times to overclock my MAX, and there's a recover ultility at Matrox's website in case if u fail.

Pegasus_gr
11th June 2002, 05:12
Originally posted by George YS
First, u need to run this command to extract the pins of ur card:
progbios.exe -d>mypins.txt

Pins will be saved in mypins.txt, then use any text editor to edit it.
After u edited the file, flash it back to video bios using this command:
progbios.exe -i auto -s mypins.txt -k

The flash should be safe as I tried it a lot of times to overclock my MAX, and there's a recover ultility at Matrox's website in case if u fail.


Thanks for that.......... can you also give me a list of all the pin values I have to change?!
Thanks

OZZIE_NO_GOOD
11th June 2002, 14:19
hhmm why is the -k I dont use that one and works for me to zo what dos the -k do ???

George YS
13th June 2002, 05:49
Originally posted by OZZIE_NO_GOOD
hhmm why is the -k I dont use that one and works for me to zo what dos the -k do ???

Well, I don't remember the meaning of a -k parameter well, but it seemed to perform a forced flash, so it may be useful for modified pins such as change in clock frequency or even susbsys_ID.

To Pegasus:
Extracted Pins is actually long and I afraid I can't post it here, if u don't mind u can post ur email address and I can send the file for my MAX to u together with a little but very useful documentation.

OZZIE_NO_GOOD
13th June 2002, 08:56
ok heres my email ozzie_no_good@hotmail.com its not to big i think because hotmail acconut isnt that big and else you can
find me whith icq 65144799 thnx



hoop i can push my g400 a little futher hehe jusat for the fun


an onother question how can i see how much my ramdac is running because i a justed my pins now my info tab says max ramdac is 400 ???

ALBPM
13th June 2002, 09:19
It's also easy to HOSE your cards up by messing with the PINS File.

Gregg, you better get ready for the - "My G400 is Dead" threads.....LOL

Paul

OZZIE_NO_GOOD
13th June 2002, 09:25
Originally posted by ALBPM
It's also easy to HOSE your cards up by messing with the PINS File.

Gregg, you better get ready for the - "My G400 is Dead" threads.....LOL

Paul



hhmm the thread will be @#%^$^ my G400 is dead thank god the next matrox card is in my system now heheh running 5 times faster then the old g400 hehe


and after 3 year good servers he may go and burn out hehe hhmm hope not am hoping to put him in my girlfriend computer so she has some good picture qualty it is one blurry mess now hehehe

Admiral
13th June 2002, 11:57
can you also give me a list of all the pin values I have to change?!

you have to change positions 65, 66, 75 and 76 for clock settings:

65 1 150
66 1 75
.
.
.
75 1 150
76 1 75

for RAMDAC 38, 39, 40, 41,42 and 43:

38 1 90
39 1 90
40 1 90
41 1 90
42 1 90
43 1 90

And for the driver installer to detect your card as a G400 MAX you'll have to change:

:SubsystemVendorId 0x2179102b to :SubsystemVendorId 0x217D102b


Here's (ftp://ftp.matrox.com/pub/mga/utils/biosutil/recover.zip) the Bios Restore utility from Matrox in case you screw it.

OZZIE_NO_GOOD
13th June 2002, 13:04
yeah thnx m@ that pin i knew was wondering abuot the other pins and the 150 75 i dont make it that high hehe hes geting corrupted display

only thing i was wondering why is it 150 and 75 what is 150 and what is the 75


and the ramdac is running at 100 does it make any different in the screen display beter ore less ore is it only for very high resolutions ???

George YS
13th June 2002, 22:50
Well, my experience on MAX is overclocked RAMDAC produces sharper image, and actually I overclocked mine to 400MHz.

And I uploaded the extracted pins of my MAX as an attached file, download if u guys need it. Remember to edit the card serial# in line 12.

There's some extra info to admiral's post.
In addition to line 38-43 for primary DAC, line 44 and 45 are the secondary DAC frequency, DAC frequency was set as DAC freq/4, so 90 means 360MHz.
While core speed in line 65/75 and 66/76 are set as core speed/2 and /4 respectively.

Wombat
14th June 2002, 09:35
Well, my experience on MAX is overclocked RAMDAC produces sharper image, and actually I overclocked mine to 400MHz. Psychosomatics. RAMDAC speed doesn't have an effect on image quality. If anything, your quality will get worse as the RAMDAC is pushed beyond its operating range. Oh yeah. you're shortening the life of your card, too.

OZZIE_NO_GOOD
14th June 2002, 20:18
Originally posted by George YS
.
While core speed in line 65/75 and 66/76 are set as core speed/2 and /4 respectively.



ok what happens when i put the a nummer off for example 140 and the other not 70 but 75 will there be any differents in preformance ???

George YS
14th June 2002, 21:26
Originally posted by Wombat
Psychosomatics. RAMDAC speed doesn't have an effect on image quality. If anything, your quality will get worse as the RAMDAC is pushed beyond its operating range. Oh yeah. you're shortening the life of your card, too.

Yes, I know my idea do not seemed radiculous. But it's what I found actually.

OZZIE_NO_GOOD
11th November 2002, 11:57
yo hi all old g400 users i got question why don't i get my pinfile
it says this \


MGA Bios Programming Utility v2.18.000d
(C) Matrox Graphics Inc. (2001)


- WARNING: No MGA Board found !


why is that what am i doint wrong i have done the trik before but forgot him pleaze help


i used the comand in the run under start c:\mgafold\sysutil208\progbios.exe -d>testpins.txt


whats wrong ??

RichL
11th November 2002, 14:18
Originally posted by OZZIE_NO_GOOD
yo hi all old g400 users i got question why don't i get my pinfile
it says this \

MGA Bios Programming Utility v2.18.000d
(C) Matrox Graphics Inc. (2001)

- WARNING: No MGA Board found !

why is that what am i doint wrong i have done the trik before but forgot him pleaze help

i used the comand in the run under start c:\mgafold\sysutil208\progbios.exe -d>testpins.txt

whats wrong ??

Hmm, possibly :


Originally posted by George YS

the dos programming utility included in 2.08 can NOT be run in windows, therefore u are better to find the 2.07 BIOS for its dos programming utility, which can be run under windows environment.

Looks like you're using a version of the Bios util later than 2.07 under Windows, which apparently doesnt work.

OZZIE_NO_GOOD
12th November 2002, 10:51
well tried that one but i am using winxp and it does not work under xp

Shifter25
12th November 2002, 21:41
I'm also having the same problem using Win XP. has anyone changed their G400 -> max speed using this method in XP? Can u share how you did it? thanks in advance!

George YS
15th November 2002, 23:58
I did that do my G400 when I was still using Win98. For XP, dos box is nearly useless. Why don't u try to flash it in real dos?
Use a bootdisk for windows9x/ME and boot it to dos. But this will not work if u had formatted ur HD to NTFS, since dos can't access such partition.

gbm
16th November 2002, 00:46
DOS-based PROGBIOS cannot be used under any Windows.
It won't run under XP/2k
It will run and usually DESTROY the BIOS under Win9x/Me.

To run PROGBIOS, boot pure DOS (use "restart in DOS mode" under Win9x)

George YS
16th November 2002, 02:11
Originally posted by gbm
DOS-based PROGBIOS cannot be used under any Windows.
It won't run under XP/2k
It will run and usually DESTROY the BIOS under Win9x/Me.

To run PROGBIOS, boot pure DOS (use "restart in DOS mode" under Win9x)

Yea, u are right. But if fact progbios before version 2.08 worked without any problems in the DOS box of Windows9x, though it is not recommended.

gbm
16th November 2002, 02:17
If by "worked" you mean "managed to successfully destroy the BIOS", you are right.

The point is: PROGBIOS CANNOT run under Windows, as in most cases it will destroy the BIOS. Sometimes it won't.

Got it?

OZZIE_NO_GOOD
17th November 2002, 14:06
Hello al peeps has anybody got the original pin for me my g400 now gifs me big corupted pics.


I got a 32Mb G400 DH so plz can anybody send me a good working pin.txt plz

I hope he wil work good again else my mobo is broke my Voltage of the I/O is to low 2.85v so the only way to findout is flash it with a good pin.txt

you can send it to ozzie_no_good@hotmail.com

Thnx ozzie

Greebe
17th November 2002, 15:10
pardon me

































BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Admiral
17th November 2002, 16:22
Originally posted by OZZIE_NO_GOOD
I got a 32Mb G400 DH so plz can anybody send me a good working pin.txt plz


There was a Japanese site that hosted all the bios files for all the G400, G400 MAX revisions, though the threads that hold the link were rather old and seem to have been deleted (out of space ?).
Maybe someone has bookmarked the link ?

Anyway, you could at least post what revision your card is (to be found written somewhere on your card, have a look), since it won't do you any good to flash it with a different revision bios.
And there's always the bios recovery (restore?) utility on Matrox's site (go search for it, I don't have the link).

Next time when people tell you to flash it from DOS do listen and also remember to backup your existing valid pins just in case :clown:

UtwigMU
17th November 2002, 18:56
1. Go to Matrox tech support utilities section (http://www.matrox.com/mga/support/drivers/files/ftp_util2.cfm).

2. Download Restore BIOS (ftp://ftp.matrox.com/pub/mga/utils/biosutil/recover.zip) utility.

3. Restore BIOS (this is done by booting from floppy restore utility creates and G400 in slot under DOS)

If this doesn't work flash the BIOS with correct pins.

4. Buy G400MAX for 25pounds/40$/ - see identify this card thread.

Don't play with pins if you don't have to.

Nowhere
18th November 2002, 05:12
Admiral, you mean this (http://www3.famille.ne.jp/~suna/g400iro.html) one?

P.S. Does someone know if this will work with G400 16MB SH? Hmmm...G400MAX with 16MB and no Dual Head...this would be interesting ;)

Admiral
18th November 2002, 08:34
Originally posted by Nowhere
Admiral, you mean this (http://www3.famille.ne.jp/~suna/g400iro.html) one?

P.S. Does someone know if this will work with G400 16MB SH? Hmmm...G400MAX with 16MB and no Dual Head...this would be interesting ;)

Don't know Japanese but that seems to rather be a description on how to change the pins.

You can overclock your G400 through the bios and leave it detected as a G400. It's not like you flash the MAX pins on a G400 to overclock it, you just change some things on your existing pins after dumping them on file and reflash them (after you make a backup of the original pins).

But just for the sake of it try changing your SubsystemVendorId to ":SubsystemVendorId 0x217D102b" (without the quotes; that's what the MAX ID is).
This will only make the driver installer detect it as a G400 MAX, it won't change clock or RAMDAC settings, just the name of your card.
For clock and RAMDAC you have to change other bios pin locations.

Nowhere
18th November 2002, 09:52
btw, I think it would be cool (and safe!) to change only pins that are responsible for card detection...I've always wanted to see "G400MAX" in device menager without burning my card ;)

D0ug
20th November 2002, 20:36
Does anyone happen to know of a site that has a description of what each line in the PINS file does?

TreyPocca
21st November 2002, 01:04
Been following the discussion and been playing with my G400 SH and now I have some questions?


1# I've tried a 20 mm and a 70 mm fan on top the grill but get the same result?? Cannot OC past 114 % i Matrox Tweak V4.04. Without the extra fan I can OC to 112 %. Do I need to remove the grill and attach the fan directly on the core?

2# My Windows doesn't seem to notice the OC'ed Ramdac. It keeps reading 300 Mhz in the control panel. Is there another program that can read the actual Ramdac speed?? (Thought the Tweak utility could).


Best of luck OC'ing

gbm
21st November 2002, 01:22
Ok, i'll yelL, as speaking doesn't help.

THE ACTUAL RAMDAC SPEED DEPENDS ON YOUR SCREEN RESOLUTION. WITH 85 Hz SCREEN REFRESH, FOR 1024X768 IT'S AROUND 85 MHz, FOR 1600X1200 - ABOUT 230 MHz.

THE 300 OR 360 MHz VALUE IS JUST THE SPEED LIMIT OF RAMDAC. TO REACH 360 MHz YOU NEED TO RUN 2048X1536 @ 85Hz.

CHANGING THE RAMDAC MAX FREQ
DOES NOT NOT NOT
CHANGE ANYTHING FOR NORMAL USE (BELOW 2048X1536).

Greebe
21st November 2002, 06:06
hehe ;)

alexudal
21st November 2002, 17:46
Together with raising RAMDAC to 360 MHz, and overall OC'ing my DH SGRAM G400, I need to raise its "2048x1536" limit to something like "2560x1920" (I have my CRT perfectly capable of that, but it's another story). What PIN(s) do I need to change into what?

BTW, has anyone, ever, tried to get more than 2048x1536 on a single head with Parhelia? I'm worried about how fast/slow redrawing of that quite a bunch of pixels might be.

Thanx,
AU
SJ CA

TreyPocca
22nd November 2002, 08:13
Guess my last tread shows that my knowledge about Ramdac is limited to some extend and the G400.

But can some one tell me where to get a reading of the Core and memory frequency?