Another g400 problem!! Will they ever stop?

[tHUMp dA cHUMp]

here is my previous message http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum5/HTML/007959.html
check here for my Hardware Config
now i am running into a problem with overlay
seems i installed some video editing software and it killed some drivers that control overlay

Problem:
after playing any game A(d3d,GL) for about 5 minutes the game just ends. I end up at my desktop as if I were never playing anything.
Does any1 know how i can figure out what is causing it?

Also in reference to my previous post can I run the new turbo GL and latest Vid drivers? Or should i stick with what i got?ver5.30

[Gurm]

It's your FIC motherboard. Sorry.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[tHUMp dA cHUMp]

Its my FIC motherboard??
Lets Check the history my Elsa Erazor X runs fine My previus TNT2 ran fine, my Voodoo 3500 ran fine,heck even my old original tnt/ vodoo1 combo ran fine!!

the only thing I changed was the vid card and you say its my mainboard?

Once again I have played the format and reinstall game to no avail

I personally think it is weak driver development on the part of Matrox....I mean I read the messages posted on this board and I see many problems with anything that doesnt have an Intel chipset. How difficult is it to incorporate proper instructions for alternative hardware. I am the type of person that always cheers for the underdog cause they always seem to pay more attention to details...I thought that Matrox was this type of company was I decieved? Is a stable driver base too much to ask for a quality product. Dont get me wrong this Vid card is awesome when it works but the drivers have more problems than a Mikro$oft OS. Working in software development I know that lots of times software is sold uncomplete, it has sort of become an understanding for consumers that updates will be given out quite frequently. I have noticed that with products like this card that the same logic is used, what ever happen to the days of quality assurance? I honestly can care less about the above problem now cause I honestly have given up on this card which is sad because this card had so much potential. Although slower it had many features, to bad neither I nor my company will ever use this or any other Matrox product again. I must also admit that I will never recommend these products to any of our customers or friends. I love my AMD/FIC combo like I said I root for the underdog and in this case I feel Matrox's Development staff have failed above all else!!

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[Rags]

I agree with Gurm, it's your FIC MB.

Rags

[paulcs]

Matrox is reported to be the second largest display adapter company in the world. Only ATI is larger. I believe they are privately held and have been profitable for almost 20 years straight. I assume the family that owns Matrox is swimming in money. Why they should be assigned "underdog" status is beyond me.

It sounds to me like you finally had everything working, and then you installed a third party program which messed things up. I'm not entirely familiar with the technical issues, and you didn't list the video package you are using, but I'll take a shot in the dark.

Are you using, by any chance, an ATI video capture/editing/TV tuner package? I believe boards like the TV Wonder require a videocard that supports overlay. I don't think the G400 does, or not the way the TV Wonder wants it to. I've read on numerous occasions that the ATI boards are not compatible with the G400, and the G400 does not appear on ATI's list of supported videocards. If your video capture board is not the TV Wonder, possibly it has similar requirements.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 20 March 2000).]

[Gurm]

I'll try to say this gently...

AW HECK... I'll say it bluntly.

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NON-INTEL CHIPSETS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN FESTERING PIECES OF CRAP.

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There. It's done. I'm not including Athlon boards or the new KX133, since those seem to be better. But the ONLY reason you had ANYTHING working on Win98 or with that other board is because VIA have spent YEARS hacking their drivers not to crash, and nVidia has as well. Nobody seems able to remember that it took A YEAR before the TNT didn't crash on SS7 boards. The G400 has only been out for 9 months. Cope.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Jorden]

Who's going to kiss Gurm on his forehead this time?? I did it last time, so next please

Jord.

[Guyver]

Where'd I put those wax lips 'o mine...

I agree that VIA chipsets have (in the past) been a source of great grief and trouble for me. I've not heard much good about FIC either, (including AGP compatibility issues, voltage regulation, etc...)

Some people do not know how to take a carefully crafted short and to the point answer. Other's consider these answers to be 'terse' or 'short-tempered', when they weren't intended to be. Sometimes they are intended to be just that, especially when someone replies in a whiny fashion.

The "but it worked with my other 'IMHO - crappy' video cards" defense on this motherboard doesn't cut the mustard. Those "other" video cards are again 'IMHO' sub-par compared to the Matrox card. But in order for the Matrox card to become a better card, it becomes more stringent in it's requirements. It requires more accurate voltage regulation, it requires more power via the AGP slot, it requires less noise to work in AGP 2X, it requires a chipset driver that fully implements the AGP x.x specification, it requires a less buggy AGP driver, etc...... Does this make it a better or worse card, I consider it to be a better card.

Now to the meat of the situation....

The fact that the card worked fine with those "other" cards may have something to do with the overlay that paulcs speaks of in his post, or it could be that some "short-coming" of the motherboard that Matrox exposes through it's higher standards requirements, is showing it's ugly little head.

Gurm, It's okay, not everyone is at your level of experience. You know the old saying "A lot of knowledge is a good thing, but a little is dangerous", unfortunately, those with "less" knowledge than some, do not seem to realize, that their knowledge is NOT the sum-total of all within the known universe.. Take it in stride and if you get fed up, then take a breather and someone else will usually pick up the ball. If all else fails, we usually "Thump-Da-Chump" anyways

OKAY, got a little long winded there...

Guyv

[This message has been edited by Guyver (edited 20 March 2000).]

[paulcs]

Gurm, I think you might like the new Asus VIA Apollo Pro 133A board. It appears to work better with Windows 2000 than it does with Windows 98. Imagine a VIA board that functions properly with the drivers that are installed by the OS: no AGP, ACPI, or busmastering drivers to install and endlessly update. ACPI appears to have been implemented properly.

This has to be a first for VIA.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 20 March 2000).]

[tHUMp dA cHUMp]

Ok Once again I am here to voice my opinions on this matter. As far as
"non intel chipsets being pieces of crap"
I have a nice little pile of motherboards here with the LX chipset that seemed to call it quits after about 6 months, so lets not deny intel chipsets have had great problems as well. But what I am questioning is the fact that matrox can not seem to develop a stable driver for a clear incompatibility issue. Just because you choose to use intel chipsets doesnt change the fact that 40% of gaming rigs sold today dont! If this company is supposed to be the second largest why then cant their staff fix a clearly driver related problem, I mean such a HUGE company should have the resources right? I feel this failure to address the issue and correct it just shows the quality of service this company provides. This problem is not even listed on their FAQ page why? Changing motherboards to make a video card compatible is not an option!! When I strip my system down to a bare
VID CARD,HDD,MEMORY,Processor,CD-Rom and still run into problems then something is terribly wrong. Given the same exact configuration with my ELSA ErazorX I am up and running with little to no time. I really mean it when I say the G400 is a great card, too bad there is not great service to add some depth to it! During the period of having this problem I have spoken with alot of technicians and engineers both above and below my skill level and far too many have had horror stories when dealing with this company. To really be superior in any market you need the product and the support for the product to be above reproach...I think I can see why Matrox is at #2

[tHUMp dA cHUMp]

"But in order for the Matrox card to become a better card, it becomes more stringent in it's requirements. It requires more accurate voltage regulation, it requires more power via the AGP slot, it requires less noise to work in AGP 2X, it requires a chipset driver that fully implements the AGP x.x specification, it requires a less buggy AGP driver, etc...... Does this make it a better or worse card, I consider it to be a better card."

I Think the benchmarks speak for themselves http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardwar...razorx/5.shtml

When all is said and done I still must say Thank you Matrox but no Thanks! With such a large market and faster better products being annouced daily I dont feel a customers should have to give up the resources to fix a companies shortcomings. Nuff Said!

[Jorden]

Bye then tHUMp dA cHUMp. Good that you're changing cards, so that we can get back to business...

I won't even react to all your flamebait you have thrown out in this thread, I let others have a chance at a big BBQ with you in the center of that for now.

I won't even comment on your pile of LX boards, "for if you've managed to crash one within 6 months, why not buy a BX board then? " would've been a nice question.

Say hi to all your engineering friends who think lowly of Matrox, and don't stop wondering why Matrox is at number 2.

"What do you want? A number one company with lousy cards and new drivers every week for they don't know what the problem is, so they test it out on everyone? Or a company with a star card and drivers out every so many times, tested by their BB's with all different kinds of setups?" would also have been a nice question to ask you.

But I don't want to stop you... go ahead and leave us please?? Yes, go... now!!

Just sell your G400 to someone who knows quality and is willing to go through alot of hassle to get it working right, who doesn't care about getting 128fps in whatever game, but needs quality and Dual Head...

I hope you live long and prosperous, but don't come back again... Or we let Gurm use his Boomstick for the first time...

Eeeewwwwww....

Jorden.

[DuRaNgO[MU]]

feel better? maybe now you should spend the rest of your money on a REAL mobo to go with your REAL video "take all my money" card

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Abit BE6 with P3 500 @ 5*124=620
14.6 gb Maxtor ata66 and 128mb ram
G400 vanilla 32mb @ 168/210
Sblive with Altec Lansing speaker combo
384k DSL and Realtek nic
Windows 98se with DX7a
3dMark2000 = 2956
Worn out reset button :O)

beat me to it, Jord


[This message has been edited by DuRaNgO[MU] (edited 21 March 2000).]

[CannyOne]

Hi "tHUMp dA cHUMp",

Is this FIC board in question the SD-11? If it is I am a fellow Athlon user. My first slot a board was a defective K7M and I now have an Epox 7KXA. However, I admit to sharing Germ's love for the BX chipset, though I do not share his disdain for VIA's chipsets. I'm also totally enamoured with my Matrox G400Max. I've used it in two Abit BX boards prior to moving to Athlon based systems. Matrox drivers haven't caused me great grief at any time on any of these boards.

My K7M had a faulty slot A connector that made the system very unreliable when booting and produced some errors. The nature of which could only be classified as "unable to duplicate"! Switching to the Epox was a revelation and a joy. My G400 runs perfectly, as long as I don't try to force AGP 4X!! (Hey I had to try it! )

This is what I recommend.
1. Install the OS.
2. Install the AMD AGP miniport driver.
3. Install the IDE Busmaster Drivers.
4. Install the VIA "PCI Bridge Patch".
5. Install the latest set of Matrox drivers.
6. Install DirectX 7a.
My Asus K7M had the same chipset combination that your FIC does. So if things didn't get installed "at all", or in something resembling this order that may be the source of your problem.

It sounds to me like you are trying to use a version of the drivers that work with a different version of DirectX. (Some of the earlier versions of the drivers, and I believe the WQHL certified drivers, don't work properly with DX7!) I'm running version 552 with TGL version 1.30.

I have some difficulties with Q3, because I can't set my AGP aperature to 256. But I really hate Q3 anyway, so it doesn't bother me. I have no problems with any D3D game, or programs like Photoshop, 3DSMAX, etc....

I'm really glad I don't have that "video editing software" you speak of! Once you get your drivers reinstalled (which may require uninstalling them first!) your problems should be solved.

I think I've covered all the bases here. Suffering from a slight case of sleep deprivation, so please forgive my randomness. BTW, please don't come here and diss Matrox products. We MURCers display something of a mental/verbal "peristaltic" reaction to that kind of thing!

[Bixler]

Hey Thumpy:

If you'll keep your asbestos suit on long enough to stick this out, you may just learn something.

re: the Sharkey review...ho hum. Benchmarks....Why??? I really don't understand why this matters to you, since you claim to have other uses for your comp, but if FPS on a PIII system is supposed to support your claim, you haven't done much for us. Try again.

Please NOTE MY SIG so you'll understand that I have some experience with this. Sorry guy, GURM was right in the first reply and you ought to listen, learn, and go from there. If not, then do as Jorden asked and LEAVE, 'cause *we* know how to deal with the problems that you don't seem to know how to handle.

If you insist on going for the glitz of the new GeFarce card, do us all a favor, and keep the same nick when you post in on other sites (so we can follow and enjoy) looking for reasons why a 4th gen video card with even MORE stringent power requirements won't work on your SS7.

I do hope that you'll stay and join us...but if you HAVE to defend your indefensible assumptions about where the underlying problem is with your system, do us the favor and keep your nick. We'll all enjoy.

I never knew I was blind till I bought some Matrox glasses.

Oh, BTW don't install the 'latest' Matrox drivers...3D apps won't run, cause the driver writers haven't HACKED DOWN the drivers yet to accomodate your platform...stay with the 5.41...5.25 would probably be better since they were specifically hacked for SS7. You can get 'em here...and be sure and follow RAG's orig. post about proper uninstalling.

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AMD K6III 400 @ 426 On a SOYO SY5EMA M/B. Marvel G200 TV with HW/DVD Daughtercard,
CDBurner, Creative DVD, Promise Ultra 66 Controller
two big WD Hdds, Outboard 56K modem
Parallel Port Scanner,
All stuffed into a Mid-tower ATX case with no device slots left!


[This message has been edited by Bixler (edited 21 March 2000).]