Will G400 Max help my Athlon Stability ?

[Peppa']

Here's the situation, I've got a K7 650 core/ 3.3 ns cache. I have also been running a CL Geforce SDR on an GA-XI7. I've got AMD approved Power Supply & memory (so lets just not go there ) Anyhow, the cpu will run with the geforce rock stable @ 750 for hours in Q3 or UT. (1x AGP)

Here's where the fun starts:

I can run the processor @ 800 1.7v (& have tried up to 1.85 for kicks)stable in everything under Win98 (including UT in software mode) My problem occurs when I use any OpenGL or D3D app at this speed. (I get the lock) Also, heat is not an issue, I have a very "unique" & custom designed case that, when paired with my artic circle, will only let the cpu heat up to about 85F air-cooled(MAX!) The Geforce is also very cool.

Sooo....

I'm thinking that the two power hogs (geforce & athlon are just not allowing for the geforce's power requirements @ this speed. I was wondering if i switched to a Matrox G400 Max, would this solve my AGP power issue?

Does anyone have any experience with this card in reference to power consumption & stabilaty with higher clocked Athlon's?

Thanx


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...it only hurts when I look at it

[Gurm]

*sigh*

Ok, let's try looking at this in a reasonable manner.

YOu have an Athlon, a chip which is KNOWN to be pretty touchy in terms of power requirements and bus noise tolerance.

Then you overclock it.

And you put in a card which is known to be completely incompatible with many Athlon motherboards...

*sigh*

The G400 MAX _may_ help, but what would really help is running your already touchy chip at the rated speed.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Thundrchez]

How are you overclocking that puppy? Are you increasing the FSB (and AGP) while leaving the multiplier the same?

If so, you are probably running into the AGP limitations of your motherboard, and not those of the GeForce. You'd probably have the same success (or lack thereof) with a Matrox G400 MAX, except that you would get AGP 2X, DVD max, better color, dual head, monitor tweaking, and EMBM.

[CannyOne]

Hi Peppa!,

Let see; K7 650 core, 3.3ns cache, GA-XI7, CL GeFarse SDR. @750 (with 1x AGP) you're stable. And @800 Windoze runs but games crash! a la "complete system lock up". Well I know your Gigabyte board doesn't support bus speeds that high so you must be using a GFD. Are you using the "Extreme Cache Cooling Kit" from Montac? Has your L2 cache divider been altered? Have you tried H'Oda's L2 Divider program? (I think you should go for a 1/3 divider as this will provide a little cushion and won't hurt your gaming) Generally, what I'm saying is: Maybe your L2 cache is flaking out at 400 MHz!
I also don't know if you M/B has features like a "Spread Spectrum Clock Generator" or a "Clock Generator for empty PCI & DIMM slots". If it has either of these disable them. The first could be causing stability problems, and the second is a power drain.
I have the same core with 3.1ns cache, on a Asus K7M. My video is provided by Matrox, in the G400MAX flavor. I have no problems @715, by bus speed, with 2X AGP enabled. I plan on getting a GFD soon. Drop me a line and I'll let you know how the G400MAX performs at higher speeds and wether or not there are "issues".

[Peppa']

Thanks for the feedback guys! CannyOne, you are correct about the GFD assumption. I am using a GFD to switch between voltages & clock multipliers (thus keeping the 100 FSB speed) Also, like you said, Canny, I have the Athlon PCB soldered to 1/3 & I use H-Oda's L2 cache progie to change cache speed dividers when I'm in Windoze. I've run the cache chips up to 350 stable, but that seems to be the 3.3's limit. My 800 testing was just using the 1/3 setting (266 Mhz) So I know the cache is not my problem. I will see about that Sread Spectrum & Clock Generator. Yeah, Canny, I'de like to know more about your experiences with the G400!

Thanx

[amoore]

Whatever else you do, try turning off all power management, including rundll32. It's still a little early to be sure that that worked on my machine, but I haven't had a crash since I did that a week ago. Before that, 'stable' was not a word in my Athlon's vocabulary.:-)

Athlon 500
FIC SD-11
Win98SE
128mb RAM
SB Live
G400 vanilla

[ChickenSoup]

Peppa'
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!! Germ has it right. Why are you even asking this??? Try thinking that the core of this particular processor just can't go over 750.... This makes me sad.
Do you really know what you are doing??? Crazy crazy crazy.... Did I mention crazy.
You should feel good that you got your 650 to 750, that's a good jump in itself.
Well I am developing a small tear in my eye for your wows.....

[Greebe]

I'll say this again... H.Oda's Athlon cache proggy is nothing but a waste of time! Unless you can control the multiplier with it also, you cannot increase the OCing of this processor. In order to get the higher speeds it would have to set the L2 latency on bootup and this program simply cannot do this. Also note that not all Athlon cpu's will OC stable especially in the 750+ region! Shoot some won't go any higher than 600!

------------------
Designer of the first commercial Athlon mod.
Anyone up for an Athlon800+? Email me (epc@netdirect.net) for more information

3000 mips, 1.172 gflops @ 900 mHz 1:3 latency w/ active cooling
CPUmark99 75
FPU Winmark 4890

3Dmark 99 Max (8x6 16, 16, triple) PD5.41, Athlon@850mHz
8000
15181

[Wombat]

Yes, sometimes Athlons just don't OC that well.
However, I don't think the cache program is a waste of time -- provided that your cache speed is already lowered down to 1/3 via hardware. Then you can use it to speed up.

[Peppa']

ALright, lets not get nasty. First off, yes i do know exactly what im doing. I'm no oc newbie. Secondly, Athlons behave very differently than PII/PIII's/Celerons in oc'ing. I've done them all, so please don't give me any of your intel oc advice. In fact, the atlon cpu fab is extremely good, much better than intel's. That's why you can take a 650 core & in some cases run them up to 750-850 mhz, while keeping a 100 fsb(with a gfd). The only thing holding people back is the L2 cache. Like is said, mine is a 3.3, which means that it is rated at 303 mhz. I use a 1/3 cache divider, @ 800 mhz, the cach is only going 266 mhz. (do the math) Also note that I said that @ 800 mhz the machine is completely stable in all but d3d & opengl. Yes i have run cpu stress tests and pushed it hard as i can to test stability. (@ 800 right now) It passes wonderfully. Now let me update you guys with some more info. I have found that by underclocking the geforce, my stablity returns. 100% Does this really sound like a cpu problem now? One more thing, over on anandtech, in a superG review from kryotech, he had the EXACT same issue. note that the mobo & power supply in his review are identical to mine. http://www.anandtech.com/html/articl...?document=1110

his review also seems to indicate that other video cards in the system corrected the problem (including g400 max) see UT bench section

SO.. am i so far off here with my assumpions? I didn't come here to get treated like a CRAZY, just looking for some advice from experience. I treat people (even with seemingly dumb ?'s) with respect. Maybe some of you guys should too....

Thanx to all those who actually tried to help

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...it only hurts when I look at it

[Targon]

My own experience with the G400 MAX is that it's a little slower than the geforce. At the same time, the display quality is second to none. The G400 MAX is also overclockable(which you will have fun with), and this DOES reduce some of the performance differences between the cards. If you have a second monitor, the dual monitor ability of the G400 also is VERY nice. I didn't think much about that feature before I got the card since all I wanted was something faster than my G200. The more I use it though, the more I enjoy it. Being able to pull certain things off to the other monitor(like my Freespace 2 standalone server), and web browser DO clear up space from your main work window. I recomend the G400, though with the rumors of the G450, you may want to wait another month or two.

With that said, you may want to see if there's a BIOS update available for your motherboard, and also check if you've installed the AGP miniport for your chipset. Win98 is a bit picky about data transfers, and it's VERY easy to go faster than the OS is able to keep up with. Good luck.