G400 Cinemaster SP/DIF Dolby 5.1 Probs

[Mikeyy]

I've been trying to get Cinemaster to output Dolby Digital 5.1 through an SB-Live with no luck. I've got Cambridge DTT 2500's and have been using the analog imputs, but just got the digital cable for SP/DIF.

I can get audio output to work but only when "AC3 SP/DIF Out Mode" is disabled(in DVDGenie v3.2). And the audio tends to pop and crack a lot, never did this when I used analog cables.

I'm using Matrox DVD-player with the latest Cinemaster decoding engine. I'm using the dvdpld32.dll from the 2.0.36.6158 build, but I've tried the 1.0.032 build as well, same problem with both. That .dll is the only CM component I've changed. If I drop all the other files from the latest build it doesn't work at all, gives me a "debugger error" even if I reboot before running it.

(I'm using the latest liveware for the soundblaster and have digital out selected).

The Really strange thing is that the SP/DIF HAS to be working somewhat because it's the only audio cable I have hooked up, and surround sound seems to work too, even if I disable "pro-logic", "3D Audio" and "Enable SP/DIF" in DVDgenie.

Anyone else had or solved this problem???

[MultimediaMan]

It's not going to happen. There is S/PDIF, and then there is AC-3, otherwise known as Dolby Digital. Creative Labs has repeatedly stated that the S/PDIF output on the Live! is fixed at 48kHz, whereas AC-3 or Dolby Digital moves along at 96 kHz. Also, even though the 33/44/48 kHz S/PDIF specification supports four channels, the Live's output is restricted to two channels. You can get a fair approximation of Dolby Digital with the Cinemaster engine using four speakers through the DirectSound API, but it still is not quite the same.

Creative has hinted at yet another daughterboard that will support 5.1 channels of output, but no official announcements have been made.

Yes, there is an S/PDIF passthrough mode on the Live!, but that is basically a repeater (It directly links your S/PDIF input and output on the daughterboard.) feature built in to avoid your having to switch input modes on your Home Theater receiver.

The new high-end Yamaha sound card is supposed to have hardware 5.1 decoding built into it.

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My (Current) Primary system:

Abit BE6 (PL BIOS)
P3 450
384MB PC-100 SDRAM (Non-ECC)
Matrox Marvel G200-TV AGP (NTSC) v2.6 BIOS
Adaptec 2940UW
3Com 905B-TX NIC
SBlive (W/ OD I/O Card, Liveware 3.0 + Update)
Creative Modemblaster 5601 Data/Voice/Fax Modem (ISA)
ADS Cadet Radio Data AM/FM Card (8 Bit ISA)
3x WD AC28400 EIDE HDDs (ATA66 Enabled)
Creative DVD5241E EIDE 5x DVD-ROM
Panasonic LK-MW602 CD-R
Nakamichi MBR 7
M/S Windows 98SE (English)
DirectX 7

My (Current) Secondary system

Data General/ ALR 2650 Mobo (v6.004 BIOS)
P2 350 (Non-SMP)
256 MB PC-100 SDRAM (ECC)
3 x Number9 Revolution 3D 8 MB PCI Adapters
3Com 905B-TX NIC
Onboard Adaptec 2940 U2W
Onboard Intel 82558 NIC
Onboard Cirrus Logic SVGA adapter (Disabled)
Creative AWE64 Gold
2x WD 9.1 GB Enterprise SCSI3 HDDs
WD 4.5 GB Enterprise SCSI3 HDD
Nakamichi MJ-5 CD-Changer SCSI2
Windows 98SE
DirectX 7

[Enemies]

With the Digital output on the SBLive 2's... Can you get the DTT2500's to work in Dolby Digital 5.1 no problem? I was thinking of getting DTT2500's but not if I can't get DD 5.1 out of them... What do I need to have it?

Thanks.

[MultimediaMan]

As I said before: Basically, the S/PDIF Bypass/Pass through is for a hardware decoder to run into and out of the SBLive! to avoid having to switch cables around.

The Creative DXR2 or DXR3 (nee' Hollywood video) decoder boards both have a coaxial digital outputs (as does the Marvel G200 TV when you have the DVD daughter board attached) for you to run to a 5.1 decoder.

Myself, I run the optical output of the SBLive! to one input of my Onkyo receiver, and use the Coaxial from the Marvel to the other and just switch them on my remote control. (I also have a MD player that I use for dubbing, so it's nice to have a free digital input/output source.)




------------------
My (Current) Primary system:

Abit BE6 (PL BIOS)
P3 450
384MB PC-100 SDRAM (Non-ECC)
Matrox Marvel G200-TV AGP (NTSC) v2.6 BIOS
Adaptec 2940UW
3Com 905B-TX NIC
SBlive (W/ OD I/O Card, Liveware 3.0 + Update)
Creative Modemblaster 5601 Data/Voice/Fax Modem (ISA)
ADS Cadet Radio Data AM/FM Card (8 Bit ISA)
3x WD AC28400 EIDE HDDs (ATA66 Enabled)
Creative DVD5241E EIDE 5x DVD-ROM
Panasonic LK-MW602 CD-R
Nakamichi MBR 7
M/S Windows 98SE (English)
DirectX 7

My (Current) Secondary system

Data General/ ALR 2650 Mobo (v6.004 BIOS)
P2 350 (Non-SMP)
256 MB PC-100 SDRAM (ECC)
3 x Number9 Revolution 3D 8 MB PCI Adapters
3Com 905B-TX NIC
Onboard Adaptec 2940 U2W
Onboard Intel 82558 NIC
Onboard Cirrus Logic SVGA adapter (Disabled)
Creative AWE64 Gold
2x WD 9.1 GB Enterprise SCSI3 HDDs
WD 4.5 GB Enterprise SCSI3 HDD
Nakamichi MJ-5 CD-Changer SCSI2
Windows 98SE
DirectX 7

[Mikeyy]

Multimediaman, I guess you've got the Creative DVD hardware decoder, I'm just using a Pioneer 6x DVD drive with the Cinemaster software decoder.

Quite a few people have said that they've gotten AC3 Dolby 5.1 working with the SB Live! and G400 Cinemaster. As it is just passing through the digital track and not doing any downsampling.

Also, how could Creative offer an AC3 5.1 product like the DTT 2500 speakers (made to work exclusively with the SB Live!) and not have AC3 5.1 usable.

Apparantly the trick is to use Cinemaster with one of the newer engines and use DVDGenie to enable AC3. As I stated in my earlier post though, I havn't been able to get it to work.

I get decent surround sound, but since all of the AC3 stuff has to be disabled in DVDGenie to get any sound at all, I think I'm still just getting AC3 Downsampled output.

Maybe there's some peice of an old install of Cinemaster or something that's preventing me from getting AC3 output. I've been trying for days to figure it out, but no luck so far.

[agallag]

You can in fact get proper 5.1 dolby digital with the sblive without a hardware decoder. You just can't do it with the matrox/cinemaster player.

Get a copy of WinDVD from www.dvdutils.com . It does software decoding of the ac-3 stream and passes it through the spdif on the sblive. I'm using it through my JVC dolby digital amp, and it works very nicely (all six of the little ac-3 channel indicators come on, and all the surround effects are correct).

Using the matrox player, it will send plain downmixed stereo through the spdif, but not ac-3.

[Mikeyy]

I installed WinDVD 2000 earlier tonight, but the sound quality seems far worse than Cinemaster. There was very little feeling of surround sound and the Dolby Digital light doesn't come on.

Which sound settings in DVD Genie do you use to get AC3?

I'm using version 2.0 of WinDVD but the picture quality doesn't seem up to the Cinemaster level.

[agallag]

I'm using WinDVD 2000 also, but I'm not using DVD Genie. You have to start a movie playing before you can change the audio settings. Just enable spdif in the audio tab of the preferences dialog, and it should start doing ac-3.

I didn't notice much of a difference in picture quality though. The only difference is that DVDMax stops if you minimize the player. You can cover the player window with other windows though.

[Mikeyy]

Are you using an SB Live! ?

After trying a few different DVD software solutions that seem to work for others I'm starting to think the problem is with the SB Live! Liveware 3.0 drivers.

Because audio is being output but it's not registering as digital in my Dolby 5.1 decoder I think that the SB Live! isn't passing through the 5.1 signal but is downsampling it instead.

I've tried about every Liveware setting but no luck. I may uninstall it and try Liveware 2.1.

[mynx]

mikeyy,
After reading your problems I went to creatives site. I couldn't find anywhere where it said that the output was 5.1. I said that it was 4 channel. Also the listing for the DTT2500 says simulated dolby 5.1.
I may be wrong, but that is what I read.

[Mikeyy]

The DTT 2500 does do real 5.1 AC3 sound. That's it's major selling point. Lot's of people on the net have it working with both Cinemaster and WinDVD.

But I've just been on the phone with Creative and it seems they've been a bit loose with the facts. They tell me now (not before I bought all this stuff) that the SP/DIF digital-out on my card won't pass through AC3.

I have the latest rev of the SB Live!. Apparently the older versions had the SP/DIF on a daughter card. The driver software will pass AC3 through Only to the SP/DIF on the daughter card (which, by the way, they suggested I purchase).

The whole thing is totally ridiculous. The driver will pass the digital signal to one SP/DIF but not another on the same card...

I actually would buy this Digital I/O daughter card, it's only $39, but I have no faith in Creative that it will actually work. I may just get the new Diamond card and dump the Live!

[WereWolf]

I had everything working just fine, Live Dig.Out to AC3/DTS Receiver, good picture from G400, but every now and then the sound would drop away for a second...
It would NOT go away.
I eventually had to buy a Hollywood + card just to get DVD working as it should.

[WereWolf]

Oh yeah, and AC3 DID work fine... ALL 5.1 channels. Receiver identified the digital signal as an AC3 stream, so...

[agallag]

Mine is an original SBLive full retail, with the digital stuff on a daughtercard (spdif in/out, plus digital DIN in/out). I'm using liveware 3. I didn't realize it was different on the new lives with a built in spdif, but that could be your problem.

[Deef]

I've got an sblive 1024 with int. spdif out.
I've heard a lot of people who got AC3 working and a lot that didn't.
To connect your SBLIVE to a ac3 receiver you have to make your own cable right? how do you connect your coax cable to the 3,5mm jack. There are different ways to so this, maybe this has got something to do with getting it working or not? Did you all built your own cable and how?

I don't know what to believe anymore, but I think the sblive is capable of passing trough a digital ac3 signal that an ac3 receiver can decode. If this is so, it's really a shame that there isn't some good info on this topic, on the creative site.