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  • G400: Request Help Diagnosing Potential BIOS Problem

    I imagine Haig, taking full advantage of his dual displays, reading my post on one screen and voiding my warranty on the other.

    Back when I was testing my new G400 and posting the results in every forum I could find, I received a couple of requests to up the clock speed of the board with Powerstip for some additional testing. I'm quite familiar with the risks of overclocking, and if I fried a circuit or two, and that's what's causing my problem, well so be it.

    However, I and others have suspected that Powerstrip may have reset some of the boards firmware parameters, as I have heard it has done with other boards in the past. Although I'm a bit of a hardware junky, and I really should learn this stuff, when I begin reading about Matrox clock parameters, my eyes glaze over and absolutely none of it makes a bit of sense to me.

    Currently, my system locks in certain circumstances while in OpenGL-based games. After a clean install of Windows 98, and I have done three of them in recent days, all seems well at first. Then benchmarking reveals a loss of a couple of fps in Quake2's demo1 and a 4-5 fps difference from comparable systems running the Q3A demo. If I don't reboot after leaving an OpenGL game, and access something like Windows Explorer instead, the game will lock up hard the next time I attempt to play it and every time afterwards.

    3DMark99 Max, both in benchmark and demo modes, appears to run fine, although attempts to run the Matrox demo have left me with a black screen and trying to open Expendable leaves me back at the desktop with the following error message: "Fatal error: the BDF is missing." This may be unrelated.

    I ran mxinfo and recorded every number I thought was relevant, in hopes that someone who understands this stuff might take a look at them and tell me if anything is off spec. Here goes:

    RAMDAC speed: 340 (Now that looks odd.)
    CLK freq:
    VGA: SClk:34/MClk:34/GClk:34/WClk blank)
    HiRes/2d: SClk:34/MClk:34/GClk:34/WClk blank)
    w/4mb: SClk:0/MClk:0/GClk:0/WClk blank)
    w/8mb: SClk:0/MClk:0/GClk:0/WClk blank)
    3dModes: SClk:1/MClk:1/GClk:1/WClk:1
    3d w/8mb: SClk:32749/MClk:32749/GClk:32749/WClk:32749

    (Note: all values were reported as MHz, except, I believe, that last line.)

    Does anyone see anything wrong? Am I on the wrong track? Should I be reporting something else? Would a BIOS flash possibly fix this? (Will Haig send me a new BIOS if I offer to put him up in San Francisco if he chooses to fly out here? It's a little chilly now, but things should warm up in September.)

    Matrox G400 G4 + MDHA32GR (Vanilla)
    PIII 500 MHz @ spec
    AOpen AX6BC
    Turtle Beach Montego A3DXstream
    SCSI Everywhere
    3Com PCI NIC and ISA 56K Modem

    My apologies for the long, boring post and the blantant attempt to bribe Haig.

    Thanks.

    Paul
    paulcs@flashcom.net


  • #2
    I experienced something similar while messing with PowerStrip. It did seem to screw with some of the cards parameters. I was unable to reset them with PS, or any of the other o/c utils. The dividers just stayed messed up.

    Those numbers you wrote down look very much like the ones I got, and they're definatly not right.

    Fortunatly, I had made an emergency bios recovery disk the day I got the card. Running that, and restoring the original bios did the trick. I haven't touched PS since

    I don't know if Haig can get you a file to fix you up...I'll point him this way tomorrow, if he doesn't answer you tonight
    Core2 Duo E7500 2.93, Asus P5Q Pro Turbo, 4gig 1066 DDR2, 1gig Asus ENGTS250, SB X-Fi Gamer ,WD Caviar Black 1tb, Plextor PX-880SA, Dual Samsung 2494s

    Comment


    • #3
      Memory type: SDRAM
      Onboard osc: 14.318 MHz
      CLK freq: SClk MClk GClk WClk
      VGA : 34 34 34 MHz
      HiRes/2D: 34 34 34 MHz
      w/4MB : 0 0 0 MHz
      w/8MB : 0 0 0 MHz
      3D modes: 1 1 1 1 MHz
      3D w/8M : 32749 32749 -19 32749 MHz

      RAMDAC speed: 340 MHz
      8bpp 16bpp 24bpp 32bpp
      Max PCLK: 355 175 2 2 MHz
      Max Vsync freq.
      800 x 600 536 264 3 3 Hz
      1024 x 768 319 157 1 1 Hz
      1152 x 864 248 122 1 1 Hz
      1280 x 1024 191 94 1 1 Hz
      1600 x 1200 131 64 0 0 Hz

      thats what mxinfo reported for my G400

      My board has no problem at 145mhz core, 194mhz memory

      Comment


      • #4
        Those numbers don't look at all right to me. Are you using the latest version if Mxinfo?

        What does G4set report? Those numbers are a little easier to decode...

        In other words, I don't trust what PowerStrip is reporting, especially if it has hacked your cards bios as well...

        [This message has been edited by Kruzin (edited 07-19-99).]
        Core2 Duo E7500 2.93, Asus P5Q Pro Turbo, 4gig 1066 DDR2, 1gig Asus ENGTS250, SB X-Fi Gamer ,WD Caviar Black 1tb, Plextor PX-880SA, Dual Samsung 2494s

        Comment


        • #5
          Cards found:
          # Loc Chip type
          0 0100 G400 AGP (Toucan) rev.03
          ----------------------------------------
          PLLs n m p freq
          HiRes PClk: 34 5 1 78.750 MHz
          SClk: 42 3 0 290.250 MHz
          G:d c f M:d c f W:d c f
          1/2 n/a 145 2/3 8.0 193 1/2 n/a 145
          ----------------------------------------
          AGP transactions enabled, sideband addressing enabled
          AGP data rate: 2x, pipeline depth: 32,

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback on such an arcane topic.

            Here's what I got:

            n m p freq
            HiRes PClk: 17 1 1 121.500 MHz
            SClk: 27 2 0 252.000 MHz

            g:d c f m:d c f W:d c f
            1/2 n/a 2/3 8.0 168 1/2 n/a 126

            Paul
            paulcs@flashcom.net

            Comment


            • #7
              Ok...those make more sense to me.

              paulcs...your numbers are what they should be for an un-overclocked card. The problem could have just been that you pushed PS too far. Once past a certain point (180mem I think), it messes with the dividers, and actually starts slowing down the core speed. Unfortunatly, that program doesn't give you and control over those dividers.

              RickT- Yours is overclocked, probably with a command like
              g200clk /1 290
              Or is that with PS?
              Have you actually seen any improvements with it overclocked? The few tests I ran both with G200clk and G4set actually slowed me down.
              Core2 Duo E7500 2.93, Asus P5Q Pro Turbo, 4gig 1066 DDR2, 1gig Asus ENGTS250, SB X-Fi Gamer ,WD Caviar Black 1tb, Plextor PX-880SA, Dual Samsung 2494s

              Comment


              • #8
                kruzin: yes, g200clk.exe /1 290. PS is screwed up. It did help my benchmarks out as well. Q2 timedemo 1 around 64fps at 1024x768 32bbp. default speed is less than 60fps. Massive is around 50fps

                Comment


                • #9
                  HI Guys !

                  The only way to get rid of those messed PStrip settings is to uninstall PowerStrip ...

                  I was trying PS also and after messing it a bit too far I ended in garbled desktops.

                  I ran W98 in safe mode and uninstalled PStrip ... everything is fine now

                  ------------------
                  Cheerio,
                  Maggi

                  I used to have some posts in my record and hopefully some of the guys 'n' girls will still know me and my system ...

                  [This message has been edited by Maggi (edited 07-20-99).]
                  Despite my nickname causing confusion, I am not female ...

                  ASRock Fatal1ty X79 Professional
                  Intel Core i7-3930K@4.3GHz
                  be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 2
                  4x 8GB G.Skill TridentX PC3-19200U@CR1
                  2x MSI N670GTX PE OC (SLI)
                  OCZ Vertex 4 256GB
                  4x2TB Seagate Barracuda Green 5900.3 (2x4TB RAID0)
                  Super Flower Golden Green Modular 800W
                  Nanoxia Deep Silence 1
                  LG BH10LS38
                  LG DM2752D 27" 3D

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks again.

                    I reformated my hard drive and reinstalled Windows 98 three times, so Powerstrip is long gone. I was concerned that it may have made some changes in my board's firmware which I could correct with a BIOS flash.

                    I'm clueless. Maybe I damaged the board with that little 10 minute adventure with Powerstrip. I'd be interested in hearing some theories and opinions.

                    Paul
                    paulcs@flashcom.net

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Paulcs, it is possible that when Maggi uninstalled his powerstrip, the uninstall routine reset everything to normal. By formatting, you would have lost that option.

                      There still should be some way for you to get your card back to normal. You could possibly even use Kruzin's bios backup to restore yours, assuming you both have the same flavour of g400 of course. I doubt it's permanent hardware damage.

                      Good luck, and be sure to keep us posted.

                      ------------------
                      Andrew Gallagher - andrew@agallagher.com
                      Asus P2B-S, PII-350, 64MB PC100, MillG200 8MB (Axiously awaiting my G400MAX), SBLive! Retail, Win98SE




                      [This message has been edited by agallag (edited 07-20-99).]
                      Lady, people aren't chocolates. Do you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard coated bastards with bastard filling. But I don't find them half as annoying as I find naive, bubble-headed optimists who walk around vomiting sunshine. -- Dr. Perry Cox

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sorry. I wasn't clear here. I did set Powerstip back to the default settings and uninstalled it properly. The more dramatic measures (format c: /s) came a few days later.

                        The card appears to be working fine as a 2D board, and the Q3A test appears to run fine, albeit a tiny bit slow, as long as I reboot before and after using it. When a new BIOS becomes available, I'll flash the board and post the results.

                        If anyone has a theory, I'm all ears. In the meantime, thanks again to Kruzin and everyone else for their numbers and advice.

                        Haig, the offer's still on the table.

                        Paul
                        paulcs@flashcom.net

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          1. New MXINFO (supporting G400 cards) has been posted on my website yesterday. The older versions cannot display timing info for G400. Both MXINFO 0.88 and G4set display the important clocking info MXINFO - from PINS, G4set - dynamically from the chip.

                          2. I've heard from many people that G4set (as well as other similar utils) give strange effects. I don't have my own G400 yet and I will not be able to say anything meaningful until I get one, so please be patient. Please read the remarks on G4set on my website. G4set is intended to give you full control over the dividers. If it doesn't - it's my fault.

                          3. AFAIK, none of the overclocking utils makes any permanent changes to the BIOS/PINS. If your strange overclocking effects are stil l present after reverting to the original setting, it means that either you did not get back to the original setting (software error?) or you managed to destroy your card by overclocking it. Also there is a slight chance that PDesk may somehow prevent overclocking of G400, changing some parameters when it encounters too high clock speed (just a speculation).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Paul,

                            I emailed you a par file.

                            I'll take that ticket now please

                            Haig

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ticket? Uh-oh.

                              I was thinking about supplying lodging. Hotel rates are very expensive here.

                              Paul
                              paulcs@flashcom.net

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