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  • To the trodden...

    Well, I just read the last of that locked thread, and I think that the "beta-boyz" aught to know that they're appreciated by far more people than they are antagonized by. Some people (whose names I shall omit in order to add some aspect of flame-retardancy to this thread), have gotten on your case for "perpetuating the lie", or flauting your beta situation.
    Sorry guys. I know you're trying to tell us what you think you can while still preserving the NDA's. It's no fun, I know. As a computer engineering student, there are many times when hanging out, or eating lunch, I see the frustration of my friends who are working on some really kicka** stuff at work, but are bound by NDA. Well, maybe it's cool stuff. I know I'm not allowed to talk about some stuff, and it's actually really boring, but that's not the point.
    I do not feel that the beta program was designed to "silence the detractors." A few months ago this board was met with a deluge of users with various and sundry hardware & software issues. Although I offered help where I could, Joel, Kruzin, Maggi, and others were often of more aid, and went relatively unthanked for this work as well. Thanks guys; sorry that some work so hard to try to burn you.

    -Wombat

    Gigabyte P35-DS3L with a Q6600, 2GB Kingston HyperX (after *3* bad pairs of Crucial Ballistix 1066), Galaxy 8800GT 512MB, SB X-Fi, some drives, and a Dell 2005fpw. Running WinXP.

  • #2
    Thanx Wombat !

    ------------------
    Cheers,
    Maggi

    Asus P2B-S @ 112MHz FSB * Celeron300A @ 504MHz
    Heavily boosted by the Millenium G400 32MB SGRAM DualHead



    Comment


    • #3
      Yea, Wombat, thanks for the words of understanding. It's obvious to me that many people would prefer to hear the info we can offer. I would think it should be easy for the few who choose not to value that information to just ignore it. Unfortunatly, some people just can't cope with reality that well, and feel the need to lash out in anti-social ways. Such is life. They certainly won't chase me away with a few infantile insults
      Core2 Duo E7500 2.93, Asus P5Q Pro Turbo, 4gig 1066 DDR2, 1gig Asus ENGTS250, SB X-Fi Gamer ,WD Caviar Black 1tb, Plextor PX-880SA, Dual Samsung 2494s

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Wombat,

        I will only answer the question about more beta testers since this falls into my domain.

        Simple answer is, we don't have enough people
        to manage hundreds of beta testers. Whenever these guys report a bug, tech supp has to reproduce it on their systems. If we can't, we then have to put together their exact system and reproduce it on that. Once this is done, we then enter it into the SQA database.

        A few people have told me to get more testers and just enter in everything that they report. No can do cause when the programmer can't reproduce it on his system, he comes to me. If I can't even reproduce it, well.......

        BTW, Despite what a handfull of people might think, Tech Supp has their paws on the beta testers, not PR. Had to get that in

        Jorden, what the beta testers put in their signature is just a matter of opinion. I can't start dictating as to what a signature can contain. If people want to take this as some kind of ploy that they are being laughed at, well, that's their problem.

        A positive way of looking at it would be that we are working on new drivers and a new ICD for the G200. But instead, they take it as as offence. Well guys, make up your minds. You want to know if we are working on supporting the G200 but when you see it in a signature, you get paranoid about it.

        And I'm sure that if they included nothing in their signature and stopped giving you guys this type of info, then the others will start accusing us of keeping quiet.

        Kind a reminds me of the old story about the man and his donkey

        Haig

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Wombat,

          I didn't mean this as critisism on Matrox's part, if that's what it reads like. If you read my post in the other thread, you'd know why I said the above.

          "As far as the signatures go, I see them not as braggery, but as an invitiation to ask questions about the new drivers/product." is where the snag is... these guys can't say too much. So if they don't say too much, they're being flamed by the whiners.

          And if one starts flaming, the friction starts and before we know it these fori are a burning Hell...

          I'll go with Steve: It's Only A Graphics Card!

          (Now if it were a part of Bill Gates' money being divided, then I'd think again... )

          Jorden

          Jordâ„¢

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm gonna stick with my sig too for a little...

            ------------------
            Cheers,
            Steve

            It's Only A Graphics Card!

            Comment


            • #7
              Here is a follow-up from Manifest about Haig’s answers:

              Here's some answers to those:

              1 - Were was the open beta sign up, so that those in critical need and best talent can request these newer drivers?
              There wasn't no open beta sign up. I chose these people in private from what I have seen them do and say on these forums. Eventhough at some points they were critical of Matrox (constructive criticism is the key here!!), their hardware and troubleshooting knwoledge was excellent.
              I'm sure that I missed a few folks but right now, I do not have any means to expand this beta team.

              Manfiest: Correct, it was a “personal” choice on the part of a Matrox employee to leave other possibly more qualified users or those in critical circumstances without representation in this beta program. These choices have far reaching consequences on current G200 card owners that are trying to make the best with the current driver situation. Matrox as a company could of made a better decision here. We, the users of your product, are suffering and in need a bit of attention.

              2 - How do we know that those that should have the beta drivers for testing really do?
              Huh? Really do what? Have the drivers or really beta test? You can believe what you want but I won't start telling anyone what bugs they have found just to prove this point.

              Manifest: Bugs can be found even by the novice, but in light of the perceived casualness of choosing the beta testers, I am questioning the complete representation of the entire G200 community in this beta program. Currently, my opinion is that there are only a very few involved. Your comments back this up in that you are unable to support larger amounts of beta testers than what you now currently have. Considering the current record of driver releases of lack thereof, I bring out that these current beta drivers may be no better than the 4.51 drivers of old. Then we are back to the original question. Are the current beta drivers in the right hands?

              3 - Yes, the qualifications of the beta testers are really in question here...
              Qualifications is a matter of opinion. Read answer to Q1.

              Manifest: I agree, and therefore I place the issue in the context of the message.

              4 - Lack of a talent pool (due to no open beta), means that we may still be getting substandard drivers even after these new
              ones are released. Matrox is the culprit of this fiasco, not the beta testers. Matrox should be the focal point to the release of
              information on the beta program, not the beta testers. Matrox should give us updates on the status of the drivers, not the
              beta testers. Matrox should be keeping their customers satisfied that they are correcting the problems of the past, not the
              beta testers... I for one would like matrox to handle this correctly, therefore I would have no need to get "firsthand"
              information from beta testers and then question their integrity.
              Maybe some other dep't can do this but as long as I'm here in Technical Support, I nor anyone else in Technical Support is not about to give out a daily report to anyone.

              Manifest: Sorry to make this personal for you Haig, that is not the intention. Please let me explain further my comments above.

              Lack of talent pool – This really goes back to my answer on question 2. I currently believe that we have substandard drivers and I for one would not like to see this repeated. No open beta or even a signup for one is moving back down this road. With the current diversity in this industry it is very unlikely that a small group of beta testers will convey to you the results that you are going to need to succeed. Look to Windows 2000 beta cycle and compare it to Windows 95 or 98 betas. The progression is a larger and larger pool of testers to track down and report these bugs. What makes matrox different that these techniques should not be used?

              Matrox the focal point of information – You should really care about this one. Matrox as a company really cares, and so wants us, your customers, to believe such when it says this. (even if you or other co-workers really do or do not believe this) Therefore all information good or bad should be in your control as much as possible. This does not mean release daily reports on bugs and such, but the release of desensitized information in progress format is not only good but forward thinking. It must “always” show progress and hope for those that are interested. That we, the G200 customer base, are still interested, to spend the time to look for information on this topic, goes a long way to show our loyalty. We do not want to pry information from beta testers.

              Matrox should give us updates - Relevant information should be posted from matrox in a timely manner. This information should not come from the beta testers. Face it, they are on a need to know basis and only know what parts of the program they are entitled to. The likelihood of incorrect or damaging information from these users is a great risk. If matrox was to post information on the subject, there would be no need for the beta testers to speak out at all.

              Matrox should be keeping their customers satisfied that they are correcting the problems of the past, not the beta testers... As we look at the above steps, this will fit in nicely with a positive corporate image. Look at how long it has taken Chrysler to turn around its corporate and product image. This image is not only earned but nurtured, and should not be risked in the hands of a few beta testers.

              These messages are long and thought out, please take them with the professionalism they were designed to evoke.

              Comment


              • #8
                Help greatly appreciated !!!
                Thanks to a "Beta boy" in getting Powerstrip to work on startup, my comp has been given a real boost over using MOC (Quake II @ 800x600 = 44 fps up from 37)
                Thanks Maggi!
                jim
                Guess I gotta change my sig now, DOH!

                ------------------
                P2-350 o/c 450, BH-6 mobo,128mb pc-100,Mill. G-200 8mb o/c 115, win98,dx6.1,4.51,2.3
                THREE BIG FANS


                System 1:
                AMD 1.4 AYJHA-Y factory unlocked @ 1656 with Thermalright SK6 and 7k Delta fan
                Epox 8K7A
                2x256mb Micron pc-2100 DDR
                an AGP port all warmed up and ready to be stuffed full of Parhelia II+
                SBLIVE 5.1
                Maxtor 40g 7,200 @ ATA-100
                IBM 40GB 7,200 @ ATA-100
                Pinnacle DV Plus firewire
                3Com Hardware Modem
                Teac 20/10/40 burner
                Antec 350w power supply in a Colorcase 303usb Stainless

                New system: Under development

                Comment


                • #9
                  Jorden,

                  Who would want to test a Taurus anyway?
                  Had to mention it :-)

                  J

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Manifest-
                    You certainly did put a lot of thought into your writing. You veiled your insults well. Like Whisper on Prozac

                    You don't know me. You have no idea who I am, what I do, or what my qualifications are. Therefore, you have no place to insinuate that I am some know-nothing twit who is only a beta tester because of some personal connection. The fact is, you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about.

                    Every one of the beta testers has extensive knowledge in his own field, and are each highly qualified professionals. My personal history consists partly of : PC tech/assembler. PC phone tech support. Tech department Manager. AutoCAD drafter for more than 14 years, currently self-employed, using AutoCAD daily, not to mention the other office programs I use. More than 10 years teaching college CAD courses part-time. Add to the professional knowledge the fact that I'm an avid gamer on the same PC I use to work on. I think I can make the cut. Every one of the testers is equally knowledgeable in their own area, which covers a variety of uses and applications. For you to insinuate otherwise, without even knowing who you are slandering is just ignorant.

                    Before the beta test program, I had never had a single exchange with Haig. It was my abilities, and willingness to contribute in a constructive way that led to this arrangement. There are no personal ties involved, and there is no X-file here, Mulder.


                    Core2 Duo E7500 2.93, Asus P5Q Pro Turbo, 4gig 1066 DDR2, 1gig Asus ENGTS250, SB X-Fi Gamer ,WD Caviar Black 1tb, Plextor PX-880SA, Dual Samsung 2494s

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Kruzin,

                      Your reply is in the other thread, do not want to double post.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Wombat,

                        I'm sure that the majority of the users appreciate the info that the Beta testers are giving, regardless of how "foggy" it might be. Most people also understand that they have no say in this vagueness. I'm sure most if not all beta programs and/or NDA prohibit the same.

                        It's unfortunate that a handfull of people are re-acting the way they are to these beta testers. Whatever reason these people have in doing so is really not my concern.

                        Here's some answers to those:

                        1 - Were was the open beta sign up, so that those in critical need and best talent can request these newer drivers?

                        There wasn't no open beta sign up. I chose these people in private from what I have seen them do and say on these forums. Eventhough at some points they were critical of Matrox (constructive criticism is the key here!!), their hardware and troubleshooting knwoledge was excellent.

                        I'm sure that I missed a few folks but right now, I do not have any means to expand this beta team.


                        2 - How do we know that those that should have the beta drivers for testing really do?

                        Huh? Really do what? Have the drivers or really beta test? You can believe what you want but I won't start telling anyone what bugs they have found just to prove this point.


                        3 - Yes, the qualifications of the beta testers are really in question here...

                        Qualifications is a matter of opinion. Read answer to Q1.

                        4 - Lack of a talent pool (due to no open beta), means that we may still be getting substandard drivers even after these new
                        ones are released. Matrox is the culprit of this fiasco, not the beta testers. Matrox should be the focal point to the release of
                        information on the beta program, not the beta testers. Matrox should give us updates on the status of the drivers, not the
                        beta testers. Matrox should be keeping their customers satisfied that they are correcting the problems of the past, not the
                        beta testers... I for one would like matrox to handle this correctly, therefore I would have no need to get "firsthand"
                        information from beta testers and then question their integrity.

                        Maybe some other dep't can do this but as long as I'm here in Technical Support, I nor anyone else in Technical Support is not about to give out a daily report to anyone.

                        Software manufacturers can easily have thousands of beta testers since software costs nothing. A hardware manufacturer can't have the same amount due to obvious reasons.

                        Haig

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Haig,
                          I'm not trying to be critical, but on your last statement, why can't a hardware company have driver ( a subset of software ) beta testers as large as the user base? Why don't you mail me (or anyone else who requests) an NDA, and I'll fill it out and test the G200 drivers for you?
                          Why is it okay to release a Beta ICD (two of 'em, even), as well as the 4.50b drivers, but not Beta PD5? Doesn't Matrox want more free workers?

                          MHO,
                          -Wombat

                          [This message has been edited by Wombat (edited 06-28-99).]
                          Gigabyte P35-DS3L with a Q6600, 2GB Kingston HyperX (after *3* bad pairs of Crucial Ballistix 1066), Galaxy 8800GT 512MB, SB X-Fi, some drives, and a Dell 2005fpw. Running WinXP.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Plus Haig,

                            Read what I said in the other thread, and either urge your beta-testers, that in the future, they should not be proudly saying that they're testing the new drivers, and subsequently the G400, with those drivers, and put all that info in their signatures...

                            Then you will get friction amongst most people !!

                            It's like all of your neighbours may test a new Ford Taurus, but you cannot...
                            Not that I mind, as I said in the other thread, but you cause friction & flaming this way.

                            Just that bit of advice.

                            (What thread? well, this one: <A HREF="http://forums.gagames.com/forums/Forum109/HTML/001792.html" TARGET="_blank"> Thank You Beta-Testers</A> )

                            Jorden
                            Jordâ„¢

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hey Kruze!

                              Down boy! Take it easy. Why get him exited? All that'll happen is that he will get his pantyhose in a knot and pull out the flamethrower. Don't bring fuel to the fire.

                              What I mean is that there is no need for you to even begin to justify your actions. We all know that the beta boyz and you in particular are SUPERMEGAPRO's in your respective fields of operation. So you throw your credentials at this poor sap? Don't rub his nose in it even though he might deserve it. Nomatter what you do or say, there will be people who cannot understand why they (in all their splendor) was not chosen.

                              Like Ant wrote, if he gets on your nerves, ignore him.

                              Manifest, I can understand your frustration about not having drivers that work satisfactory. Just don't go bashing the boyz. It's not their fault that you were not chosen. OK?

                              Regards,

                              Jake

                              [This message has been edited by Jake (edited 06-29-99).]
                              Who is General Failiure and why is he reading my drive?
                              ----------------------
                              Powercolor Radeon 9700np, Asus A7N8X mobo bios ver. 1007UBER, AthlonXP2800+@3200+ (200 Mhz fsb, 2.2 Ghz) on TT Silent Storm, 2*256Mb Kingston HyperX PC3500 DDR-RAM, 19" Samsung 959NF monitor, Pioneer A04 DVD-RW, Two WD800 80 GB HDD's, IBM Deskstar 40 GB

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