WTF are the new G-200 drivers for Windows???

[Whisper]

From one really pissed off Matrox G-200 owner.

It is the 6 month anniversary of the release of the so called "LATEST" Matrox G-200 4.51 drivers for Windows, and still no news on when we will be seeing an update, other than a pathetic soon. (I am really beginning to hate that word, raise you hand if you are as well!)

Anyway, I am beyond the point of listening to any release dates that Matrox may tell, us, because since when have they last met a deadline they have set themselves?

All I constantly seem to read in the forum from the "Matrox Beta Testing Sycophants" is how great the latest beta drivers are.

If they are so great, why have they not been released?

I have to make the bold assumption that you guys have brains, and would not say unstable drivers that lockup your machine or crash your programs are great, so I think I can safely assume that the drivers are as stable, if not more stable, than the current "LATEST" drivers.

If these beta drivers are as stable as the current "LATEST" drivers and they give such great performance and visual quality enhancement, why have we not got them?

Can any sane person, explain why??

Who do I have to suck up to, so I can start getting some decent driver support as well??

If they aren't all that great, then at the very least, shut up, or say something like, "Well, you get an extra 5fps and it looks great, but it tends to lock up your system or crash xyz program."

Stop me if I am making too much sense here!

I will take anything, as long as I don't lose stability/quality, and any improvements I could get, would be much appreciated.

I am sick and tired of seeing release after release of new and improved TNT and Voodoo chipset drivers, and not a word except for a pathetic "soon" from Matrox and the "Matrox Beta Testing Sycophants". How many months have we been hearing the word "SOON" from Matrox and their unpaid lackeys??

It is seriously beyond a joke now.

I have gone from recommending Matrox boards, to telling people to steer clear of Matrox, because of the pathetic driver support, and their complete and utter lack of support for the end user. I bet many others are doing the same! I mean, do you really want a Video Card, no matter how great it is, that basically has no vendor support for their drivers?? I certainly don't, and I can not conscientiously recommend such a video card to anybody who asks my honest opinion, unless I hate them!

6 Months, no new driver update, seems like zero vendor support to me, anybody care to disagree with me on that point? All the other video chipset vendors seem to manage more frequent updates to the drivers of their flagship products, which the G-200 certainly "WAS"!

All of this is exemplified by the way they treat their number 1 supporter, Ant, where they basically gave him the short answer, when he requested new NT drivers. I bet the long answer was, "NO, AND F..K OFF!!!!" How he puts up with the complete lack of respect from Matrox, I have no idea, I think he should be nominated for Sainthood, as no human should have to put up with that sort of crap from anybody or any institution.

Matrox have to be absolute C..TS!, because it is beyond my ability as a human being to comprehend that any 1 person, or group of people could be as inept and incompetent as the Matrox driver people, or whoever controls the release of the Matrox drivers are.
Therefore I have to conclude they must be doing it deliberately, thus the label of C..TS is absolutely correct.

Before you all go getting your knickers in a knot, I don't give a shit about any possible arguments any of you may want to put forward, trying to say that x driver is newer than 4.51, I really am not interested!! Do I have to repeat myself in this regard? I hope not.

I will reinforce this point, I do not count a 2nd beta release of a piece of functionality that was supposed to be release code in the damn box when I bought the god damn thing, as a real update. Even if you do classify it as an update, it is about 3 months old as it stands, and you need 4.51 to run the friggin thing anyhow, all previous driver revisions, no matter how unified, certified, crapafied is irrelevant. Checkmate!

What really is the f..king problem??

P.S. Cut and pasted, just in case my post gets mysteriously deleted!

[This message has been edited by Whisper (edited 06-25-99).]

[PaulS]

IMHO, what you are seeing is a classic conflict of interest. Most other chipset manufacturers do just that, only make chips. They have a commercial interest in producing drivers that fully exploit the potential of their chip so that card manufacturers will continue to purchase those chips.

Matrox however is the company that designs the chips and builds the cards. Their major deals are OEM, so once the marketing department has done its job, there is no real incentive to continue to refine the drivers beyond getting the bugs out. Remember that once an OEM has sold a system, they want stability above all else.

It will be interesting to see if 3Dfx head down this path as well, I think it is almost inevitable if they attract a lot of OEM's.

Paul

[Filmgeek]

We share a common rage, Whisper. And as harsh as some of your words are, I think all of them are well deserved by Matrox. Funny thing is, as absolutely horrid the software experience of having a G200 has been, it's not that which really burns me. What really burns me is the way the people at Matrox treat their customers, and even their biggest supporters, like Ant. It seems to work for Matrox you have to have a PR degree from FU. Perhaps Matrox has always been run by a bunch of a**holes, and I never noticed it because their products were top notch until now. Now, with ancient drivers that were pretty crappy even when they first came out, it would be in Matrox's best interest to do a little brown-nosing and get on the better side of g200 users. Instead, we get silence, and bags full of hype about the g400 and the fantastic beta drivers that are really really good, just you wait. Save it, that's all I've got to say. I'll believe it when they're running on my machine. And being a Marvel G200 owner, you get a double barrel full of crap, since Matrox really doesn't care that much about their "consumer" video editing products, after all, you get what you pay for, in fact most of the time you get less, but who cares right? I keep thinking about George Carlin when he talks about the true meaning of "Customer Service."

(Also a cut and paste, just in case)

[kasper]

I seem to remember comments like new drivers will be out when the G400 hit the streets. Well the G400 are out and guess what no new drivers.
Anyway they'll be here soon.

Soon

Really soon.

Really Really Soon.


Anyway I'm pissed off since my Tape drive packed up and I can't afford a new G400.

[Hellmut]

Poor.

[Kruzin]

Ohhh. Ouch. That's flame bait if I ever heard it.
But I won't disagree.

They should have been released in some form by now (even if they called it another beta).

I don't think that the beta test guys can argue too many points you made there (except that we have seen the progress). We ask all the time when they will be released, and all we know is what they tell us. So why attack us? Ever hear the phrase "Don't shoot the messanger"? We where offered an opportunity, and we took it. So don't take your rage out on us.

What will you do when you get the drivers, and they guys who have been using them don't want to help with a problem you might have because of your remarks?

Be mad at Matrox, stop taking potshots at the guys trying to bridge the gap.

Oh, BTW- SOON!


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P2-350(@103*4=412), Asus P2B(1009), 128meg PC100, MillG400 32meg(PD5.20.???), CL SB Live!Value, CL PC-DVD, Mitsumi CD-R, WD UDMA 8.4&6.4 gig, (2)USR 56k(multilinked), 3Com 905B-TX, etc...

[Opus]

Hi Whisper,
Perhaps some primal scream therapy might help. Just let it all out

As a non-betatester, non-matrox sycophant, happy (-ish) G200 owner, I do see your point though. This, however, is 'The Real World' (TM). Matrox, as a company, doesn't have the resources to spend time continually updating what is now an old card when they are trying to meet the deadlines for new ones. Okay, so we won't go over the OGL fiasco. They would probably pivately agree with you that their project management could be better.

At least Matrox makes an effort in supporting their older products with (eventually) updated drivers. For an example look at my old card, The Diamond Stealth 3D2000. Good card at the time, PC Magazine award winner etc. Drivers stopped being made in Nov 1997...

They have also been working on and releasing certified drivers since 4.51 came out. Okay I don't really see the point of these personally and I'm probably with the majority that want to see faster more efficient and compatable drivers (with o/c support would be nice) coming out instead but I imagine that once the g400 is (finally) out, we will see new G200 drivers with OGL support . Going by their track record, hopefully they won't be the last ones.

Cheers

ps Filmgeek - Have you noticed how many few IT companies today actually give a sh*t these days with regards to their 'loyal' customers. Lets see M$, Intel, ATI, Diamond, etc. They seem to be taking lessions from Dilbert. For new generation video cards it's a sellers market (compare with the highly competitive consumer driven, low profit margin hard drive industry).

The market has expanded and competition gotten so fierce so much these days that they are just spitting new generation products out every 6-12 months. As such the consumer has difficulty with brand loyalty (look at the 'should I go for a v3 now or wait for a G400 or wait a bit longer for a Max' early attitude). What was it that made you go for a matrox card in the first place? For me it was the fact that it was the fastest 2D card on the market at the time in the price range. My next card will *probably* be a G400 for the same reason and it's nothing to do with brand loyalty.

Matrox are in a fortunate position that they do actually produce good quality, high persormance gear. It's just unfortunate that they have problems keeping to their deadlines or keeping up with market trends. Imagine if they had been able to launch an OGL G400 the same time as the V3's...

Sorry if I waffled

[Opus]

Kruzin,
Don't worry not everyone feels the same as Whisper about you lot of beta-testing brown-nosers (I'm kidding !!!)

I've notice some hostility towards the Beta testers on the forum lately. Before when everyone had G200's and were tweaking them like crazy to beat each other's benchmarks. it was good fun because it was a fairly level playing field. Now with the G400's benchmarks being revealed/flaunted (chose one depending upon your mood) those old G200 owners who like bigger-faster-more are feeling dated and getting a bit frustrated and taking it out on the beta testers. Geeze, it's ONLY a graphics card not your knob! Next year we'll be going through the same again with the G800...

Personally, I don't mind the info from the beta testers. My G200's performance is still good enough and from the benchmarks posted (not interested in >1280 screen res performance in Quake) I can't justify buying a G400/Max for another 6 months or until the price comes down below 90UKP (yeah, yeah, long wait... ) by which time the forum will have covered every real-world aspect of the new cards and drivers (and you won't get me posting a 'this new card/driver sucks' message).

Cheers

[Filmgeek]

Opus,

I absolutely agree with you when you say all those companies have screwed and will continue to screw the consumer. And I do realize this is the Real World (not that lame MTV show that makes me wanna get medieval on those whiny little gen-X losers, uh, sorry where was I?) but, that's no excuse. I'm sorry but I hate that "the grass isn't always greener" metaphor. It's just an excuse to keep doing things the same crappy way. And as long as we're on the subject of metaphors, I can't really say the "don't shoot the messenger" metaphor works here since the problem is not bad news, it's that there is no news, there isn't even a messenger. That's the problem! No communication, except for the beta testers. Anyway, that said, Whisper was probably letting his venting get directed at the wrong people. Ok, well, I'm off to bed. I'm glad no one has taken the role of self appointed Matrox defender and felt the need to brutally insult those here, but I guess sadly it's only a matter of time before that happens.

P.S. Kruzin, I can assure you, I am mad at Matrox, and not you.



[This message has been edited by Filmgeek (edited 06-25-99).]

[SteveC]

Opus - thing is, there is no news for the g200. All benchmarks have been swapped, all tweaks gievn - there's nothing left! So until there is news for the g200, we can only talk about the g400. Don't worry - my second machine still purrs along with my old g200 quite happily, so I use both cards... infact, I have three PCs in my house - my Dad's one still uses the original Mystique 170!!
We still give support for people who have problems with their G200s. And I don't take kindly to being bashed left, right and centre for just being as helpful we can. Belive me, if we knew something about the release date, or if we knew and were allowed to say, then we would! Why would we hold anything back? It's all in the Big M's interests to get as much faith in their users, so we may as well keep on telling what we know (or are allowed to say).

OK? Thank you.

------------------
Cheers,
Steve

Using dodgy beta stuff in not that bad a PC with all sorts of bits n bobs in it helping to find ET calling home...

ICQ: 29468849

[tohoward]

You're right on target.

You might be a little too harsh on the beta testers, who for the most part aren't complete jerks.

I've been recommending to everyone I know to avoid like crazy any Matrox product given the crap they pulled on me with the ICD and the total lack of certified, optimized, well tested drivers.

Given the capabilities of the competition (speed, image quality, cross platform support, optimized SIMD ICD, etc., etc.) there's no really compelling reason to get a Gx00 anymore, unless you are a matrox dweeb or really really have to have bump mapping (which does look nice) and/or top dog DirectX performance.

Matrox: If you want to retain any sort of good relations with your current customers you'd better offer them some incentive, and right quick. Giving G200 owners that have been waiting for an ICD for a year now a $50 discount on a G400 card would certainly go a long way to getting your butts out of the corner you painted yourself in.

Todd Howard
--
"One pissed off G200 owner"

[kasper]

Still pissed

Really soon

Really really really soon

Really really really really oh shit the keyboard's knackered now

[Manifest]

Whisper, that was one good message, it sums up how I feel almost exactly. In a product like this, with new programs released monthly, beta code should be available as milestones are accomplished. At the rate we are going, when these new phantom drivers are released we will all have Pentium IV's or K8's .... Maybe that is Matrox's plan!

[SwAmPlAdY]

Howdy,

A $30 rebate will do to.

[glenbrook1998]

That idea about a g200 rebate has been thrown around this forum ever since g400 was announced. Honestly, don't hold your breath. G200 is a relic according to Matrox as evidenced by total lack of support from the start. Basically all the emails of bugs and cries for opengl icd have been used to develop the g400 and that now is their flagship. Matrox would like nothing better than to just sweep the gool ol' g200 under the rug, what a mistake it was! Lies, lies, and lies.

Do they have any need to win back our support by offering g200 owners an apology for blatantly deceiving us in writing about the capabilities of the g200 in the form of a $50 rebate (GOOD WILL GESTURE)?

Believe me when I say g200 is swept under the rug, any sort of rebate would open up that old can of worms, bad press, etc that would do harm to their new baby the g400.
If I see another article about bump mapping I'm gonna puke.