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View Full Version : I tried Ultra TNT2 versus G200 - G200 won!



LightHeaded
23rd June 1999, 18:04
WOW...what a difference.

I went out and got a Diamond Viper V770 Ultra just for fun. Put it in one of our Win95 machines and loaded up the game Need for Speed III that came with it. Then, I swapped out the P2-400 CPU to a P3-500 CPU and updated the mobo bios for the P3.

The game sucked. It was slow, choppy and the textures were awful. The scenery in the near distance would drop in at the last minute in chunks. The car had no reflections and it was awful.

I reinstalled the drivers and tried again.
No difference.

Then, I uninstalled the V770 and the drivers and reinstalled the Mill G200 SGRAM 16MB and ran the game again. This time, the game screamed, all textures were perfect, all reflections were present and it was absolutely amazing the difference.

Oh, I forgot to mention.....
This was true for both the P3 and the P2 CPU's.

Also, the InControl99 Tools were lame.

I don't know about benchmarks, but for $250US it was sure a big disappointment. All I know is that the G200 kicked the crap out of the TNT2Ultra when it came to sheer enjoyment of the game.

As a side note, one of the after-effects of uninstalling the V770 was that it really screwed up the Registry. A whole lot of our business apps had to be re-installed.

Furthermore, the OpenGL performance of the V770 inWin95 was no better than the beta2 ICD from Matrox.

I returned the card to Fry's today and got my money back. What a learning experience.

I just thought I would share this with those out there who don't understand benchmarks and just want to know how it "felt". Granted, I only tried one game, but the overall performance just wasn't there....for the money it cost.

Just me two cents, mates.....

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Paul Luntsford, LC
PLA Designs, Inc. Theatre and Lighting Consultants
NT4, AOpenAX6BC, P3-500, 100MHzFSB,256MB SDRAM(PC100),MillG200AGP/16MB SGRAM

Shane
23rd June 1999, 18:38
Thanks for the Enlightenment Paul!

I know this guy by the name of Sef who'd love to chat with you about that!

http://forums.gagames.com/forums/smile.gif

TAPII
23rd June 1999, 19:13
You must have been drinking, og maybee you forgot your glasses. The TNT2 is faster than the G200, no matter what. Get yourself a G400Max, and we may see another test result.

TAPII
23rd June 1999, 19:13
You must have been drinking, og maybee you forgot your glasses. The TNT2 is faster than the G200, no matter what. Get yourself a G400Max, and we may see another test result.

spoon
23rd June 1999, 20:55
k, first of all : i come in peace =)

I got a V770U yesterday, something's wrong with your drivers because NFS3 looks great, i have car reflections etc.

The g200 is still the king of 2D, but the difference of 2d-quality isn't all that much.

3d-performance is amazing, Q3 1024 at 32bpp is VERY fluid. I don't regret buying the V770U.

The G200 was also worth my money, i had alot of fun playing around with it. and it's simply beautifull, 2d or 3d.

I must say the difference is image quality is biggest in 2D. 3D on the diamond is almost as good as G200, only difference is that the colors are a bit less vibrant.

I was also interrested in the G400, it looks real nice. but i matrox pissed me off so badly that i wouldn't risk it anymore. It's nice to have openGL support out of the box for NT.

Good luck to those buying G400's. I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

SteveC
23rd June 1999, 20:59
I knew there had to be something wrong with Lightheaded's experience...
Anyway, one thing that is really irritating me about what people say about the g400 is the NT OpenGL support out of the box.

<H1>THERE IS NT4 OPENGL SUPPORT OUT OF THE BOX WITH THE G400!!!!!</H1>

Thanks you.

------------------
Cheers,
Steve

Using dodgy beta stuff in not that bad a PC with all sorts of bits n bobs in it helping to find ET calling home... :)

ICQ: 29468849

SteveC
23rd June 1999, 21:01
And why-oh-why-oh-why-oh-why aren't HTML tags workin?

Robbo
23rd June 1999, 22:22
I haven't got a flipping clue.... and I haven't got a flipping clue either about the new G200 drivers!

<H1>Where are they?</H1>


Robbo

Ant
23rd June 1999, 22:23
Correction, there is NT support out of the box unless you happen to run the MURC. Phil got a G400 supplied with NT drivers and yet they still won't supply them to me. What the hell is wrong with Matrox?

MarkV
23rd June 1999, 22:38
Ant, can't you get them from the developer relations page on the Matrox site? I put in for a password last weekend, got an e-mail on Monday, and now I have access to the latest driver/ICD/Powerdesk for 9x and NT for the G400. Some of the drivers on the page are also unified and work with the G200 and previous Matrox cards.

MarkV
23rd June 1999, 22:41
Duh, I'm telling you this and you were the one who mentioned the developer relations site and the new drivers in the first place in the MURC News section.

I'm definitely not a morning person. http://forums.gagames.com/forums/smile.gif

Ant
23rd June 1999, 22:42
As a so called "Editor" I'm not officially allowed to participate in any beta testing, I can only wait for the drivers that marketing see fit to give me.

MarkV
23rd June 1999, 22:51
Considering how much this place helps fellow Matrox users, you'd think they would be a little nicer about that...

Then again, I'm keeping my opinions reserved until I see how close Matrox comes to the 3-4 weeks they promised for the MAX I ordered on 6/1.

neo
23rd June 1999, 23:40
Just the other day I decided to throw $250 into the wind for fun. I was really disappointed to see that it didn't fly well, so I went and grabbed it from the air. I'm OK now... though.

http://forums.gagames.com/forums/smile.gif http://forums.gagames.com/forums/smile.gif http://forums.gagames.com/forums/smile.gif
-neo

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Asus P2B-F, 496MHZ Pentium II (4x124!!), Global Win VEK12 hs/fan, 128MB Micron PC133, Maxtor 4GB, SB AWE 32, Creative DVD 2x, Mitsumi CDR 2x/8x, Sony Trinitron 17", Old Matrox Video Card, and a redhead with a pair of 36Cs (O/Ced to 38Cs)






[This message has been edited by neo (edited 06-24-99).]

Electric Amish
24th June 1999, 00:55
I'll bet a $1 he was running in software mode because he didn't setup the TNT2 in the 3dSetup. My friends have had problems with that with their Viper550's.

Paul

LightHeaded
24th June 1999, 03:31
OK...OK..OK..

Whew, lot's of comments and speculation.

Yes, I did do 3D setup. You must do it for each 3D application you run.

I tried the DirectX drivers that came in the box, and the latest ones on Diamond's website.

Before we installed it, we completely removed all Matrox stuff.

The OpenGL testing was done using LSviewer by Discreet Technologies, 3D Labs x29, 3D Exerciser by Intergraph, and a cute little teapot benchmarker found on Lightscape's website, written by Eric Favreau.

I forgot to mention that we tried the DirectX 6.1 package shipped with the card and the Microsoft package from their website.

You are right that this may be a fluke, and that something may have been wrong with the install. No problem with that idea. However, considering that we build our own high-performance PC's for our lighting analysis and rendering services which do quite well, I would hope that we might know something about putting components together properly. But, there is always the chance we messed up.

An interesting note is that we tried the card in Win95 OpenGL mode with Lightscape. Every time we tried to change views or resolutions on the fly, Lightscape crashed. Lightscape said that the TNT family has problems with strict OpenGL implementation.

What I did find very fascinating with the card was that in Windows NT4, with OpenGL benchmarking apps, the card was blisteringly fast. Note that the card claims to have "hardware triangle setup" and a 12 GFLOP geometry engine. While I believe it definitely has some form of onboard geometry accelleration, I have a hard time believing that it has 12GFLOP. Even the most expensive OpenGL cards (at $1000 to $3000US) only have geometry accellerators at 2 or 3 GFLOPS. My point is that the presence of a geometry accellerator make a huge difference in NT with OpenGL.

Didn't mean to cause such a stir..


------------------
Paul Luntsford, LC
PLA Designs, Inc. Theatre and Lighting Consultants
NT4, AOpenAX6BC, P3-500, 100MHzFSB,256MB SDRAM(PC100),MillG200AGP/16MB SGRAM

MikeMyers
24th June 1999, 03:35
Ant,

Geeze what do you want!!! hehe.. We all have to wait weeks before we even see a G400Max..

TNT2 Ultra's are just itching to be bought.. arrrghh..

Mike

djroberts
25th June 1999, 06:04
If you benchmark the cards. The TNT2 will smoke the G200 every time. But, If you load up NBA Live 99 or a few other games I've seen. The G200 is much smoother bar-none. This is a known problem for the TNT cards. They run scetchy in certain D3D games, mainly EA games. this has been a topic of choice on Hardware Central...

- DJ

LightHeaded
25th June 1999, 10:14
djroberts,

So I am possibly not nuts????

I found out that my associate here used the version of the NFS3 that comes with the TNT2 for the TNT 2, and used the version of NFS3 on the EA website (same name, same game) for the G200 test.

Strangely, the Motorcycle race game did not do as bad on the TNT2.

Very odd.

------------------
Paul Luntsford, LC
PLA Designs, Inc. Theatre and Lighting Consultants
NT4, AOpenAX6BC, P3-500, 100MHzFSB,256MB SDRAM(PC100),MillG200AGP/16MB SGRAM