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View Full Version : Are Sony's D8 camcorder's supposed to be "noisy"?



JerryH
22nd October 1999, 06:32
I just got my TRV-103 yesterday, and the quality is great! My Sony TV just happens to have an SVHS input jack, so I used the camcorder's SVHS jack to output the video - looks great!

But I wonder: when I go to Play or Record, the drum head is kinda loud. To be more accurate, it sounds louder than a couple of regular 8mm camcorders I have access to. Is this normal? I have also heard that the Digital8's drum head spins much, much faster than an analog counter part.

I wanted to ask this question here to get a customer's point of view, rather than querying Cameraworld. Thanks!

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K62-300, 96MegRAM, FastTrack IDE RAID (14GIG), Marvel G200

wkulecz
22nd October 1999, 08:26
I have a bottom of the line TRV-7000 Digital 8 camcorder. It seems very quiet to me, so much so its hard to tell if its running or not, particularly in VCR mode using the IR remote since its not right up next to my ear.

I'd expect a more expensive model to be if anything quieter, I'd investigate further in case you got a "lemon".

--wally.

BrianP
22nd October 1999, 08:55
I have a TR-103 and I can't say that I find it to be any louder than the 8mm Sony that I used previously. In a room that is completely quiet you will hear it, or if you cup your hand over the microphone the tape will even pick up and record the sound of the tape drive (kind of like plugging your ears and hearing yourself breathing), but that has always been the case with camcorders I've owned.

DrMordrid
22nd October 1999, 11:32
This is because the D8 cams transport the tapes at more than twice the speed of 8mm and 1.6 times the speed of mindDV cams.

8mm/Hi8 = 14mm/sec
miniDV = 18mm/sec
D8 w/8mm = 29mm/sec

Since the spindles in the 8mm tapes used by D8 were never designed to go that fast noise is just one of the problems you might encounter.

Dr. Mordrid


[This message has been edited by DrMordrid (edited 22 October 1999).]

BrianP
22nd October 1999, 12:35
>noise is just one of the problems you might
>encounter.

Here we go again.

Sorry, there is nothing wrong with the D8 format. A number of us are very happy with it. Can't we just leave it at that?

viewaskew
22nd October 1999, 12:57
I have a TRV310 and I don't notice any noise from the tape spools/drum heads, etc.

BTW, My best friend owns a video production studio and couldn't believe the quality I was getting out of my little $1000 camcorder. Compared it to his Canon XL-1 and couldn't discern a difference, I also saw a site (wish I could remember the URL) in which somebody did a pixel-by-pixel evaluation of a frame of DV and a frame of D8. They were identical, pixel for pixel.
http://www.dvdcollect.com

JerryH
22nd October 1999, 13:03
Well, I hope not to start an argument between D8 and regular DV (I must've missed that discourse). I think D8 is a great format, especially for me since I have plenty of old analog 8mm tapes sitting around.

However, I'm willing to bet that I may have ended up with a "lemon" of sorts, so I plan on exchanging it.



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K62-300, 96MegRAM, FastTrack IDE RAID (14GIG), Marvel G200

A_BIT
22nd October 1999, 14:37
I do not hear any noise from my TRV103 when it is operating. The zoom motor is also very quiet compared the TR7.

-Anthony

Patrick
22nd October 1999, 15:35
"Since the spindles in the 8mm tapes used by D8 were never designed to go that fast..."

Oh pleeeease, come on!!!

Does this mean that any and all 8mm tapes are liable to suffer from a meltdown while they're being fastforwarded and reversed?

I'm beginning to suspect that there's some kind of a MiniDV propaganda network in operation at this site.

Jerry, if you'd like to read some recent discussion here on this topic, have a look at:

http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001910.html

Make sure you're wearing your rubber boots though. You can guess what really starts to get deep. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/biggrin.gif

Keith Wiebe
22nd October 1999, 20:43
I think Dr. Mordrid has lost it! I don't notice any extra noise on my TR7000 compared to my Canon ES3000 hi-8 machine.

Elie
22nd October 1999, 23:10
"My best friend owns a video production studio and couldn't believe the quality I was getting out of my little $1000 camcorder. Compared it to his Canon XL-1 and couldn't discern a difference"

Here's where I have to disagree with you unfortunately http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif
The XL1 is a 3CCD cam which uses the pixel shift technology to produce superb image quality especially under low light.

There is no way you can compare a single CCD cam to a 3CCD 1/3 cam, also the optics on the Canon are far more superior than that of Sony's.
It's like saying vhs is just as good as SVHS.

And what Doc is talking about is true,
but all he's saying before anybody starts cutting him up, is basically due to the difference in speed you might experience some noise when recoring or even during playback.
Now that of coarse depends on tape quality some of you would not experience it and some of you will.
Just my 2 cents http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Regards,
Elie

Keith Wiebe
23rd October 1999, 06:11
Yes, perhaps the XL1 will produced a better picture but for thousands more it ought to! I would say though that my TR7000 has as good as picture as I've seen on broadcasts (I don't have satellite or DS disc, etc.)Elie, do you have a firewire card yet? Pretty neat!

DrMordrid
23rd October 1999, 15:26
All I said was 8mm tapes weren't designed to be used at the D8 transport rate and that it *might* cause problems. They weren't and it might. We'll know for sure in a year or three, if D8 lasts that long.

And how is a cautionary note "loosing it"? The last I heard it was called "devil's advocacy". A time-honored pursuit ;-)

Dr. Mordrid



[This message has been edited by DrMordrid (edited 23 October 1999).]

RealTime
23rd October 1999, 15:52
I have a TRV-310. I get some noise (light clicking) when re-winding. The noise decreases a bit if I put light pressure on the Door/cover/whatever it's called.
As for noise during normal operation I found it to be a fairly quiet camera.
The only thing I have to compare it to is a 9 year old full size VHS that has left a permanent hum in my ear http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif
I skipped the VHSc, 8mm, Hi8 and waited for the economical http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif Digital8.


[This message has been edited by RealTime (edited 23 October 1999).]

Elie
23rd October 1999, 19:08
Hi Keith,

No unfortunately, no fire wire yet, but maybe soon http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Cheers,
Elie

[This message has been edited by Elie (edited 24 October 1999).]

viewaskew
23rd October 1999, 19:14
(Read the following and then read why I agree with Elie's statement and a better explanation of what I meant in my previous message.)

I wrote previously: "My best friend owns a video production studio and couldn't believe the quality I was getting out of my little $1000 camcorder. Compared it to his Canon XL-1 and couldn't discern a difference"

Elie replied: "Here's where I have to disagree with you unfortunately
The XL1 is a 3CCD cam which uses the pixel shift technology to produce superb image quality especially under low light.

There is no way you can compare a single CCD cam to a 3CCD 1/3 cam, also the optics on the Canon are far more superior than that of Sony's.
It's like saying vhs is just as good as SVHS."

I totally agree with Elie. I should have explained better what my friend did to compare the image between his XL-1 and my D8.

He took a finished commercial he had shot with the XL-1 and outputted it from his non-linear editing system to my D8 camcorder and then to his XL-1 via firewire.

When he played back the footage from my D8 camcorder and then from his XL-1 on a monitor, he could barely notice a difference, if any. I agree that it is true that footage *SHOT* with my D8 will never look as good as footage shot with his XL-1.

For me, the D8 was an economical way to go "digital" and I've been extremely pleased with it since.

Grigory
25th October 1999, 02:41
The noise, of course, is NOT related with tape speed.

I may be a result of faster head velocity and drum revolution rate.

I think that original message about velocities on one very early reply about D8 was speaking exactly about the drum velocity, but not about tape speed. The author made not very clear statement, which is now used for one year as foundation of D8 "weakness".
However, the one year of testing the new format did not prove this very early speculation, based on several digits, but not on experimental data.

The noise of my D8 is well inside the typical values for camcorders. Nothing special.

Grigory

JerryH
25th October 1999, 09:01
Yet another question, this one about tape types/brands.

Has anyone noticed any difference in reliability, longevity, drop-outs, whatever between using Hi-8 or regular 8mm tapes with Digital8? Can Digital8 get by with regular tapes? Are there major differences between brand names (I've always thought that Sony, FUJI, TDK, memorex and others all buy their tape from 3M anyway)?

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K62-300, 96MegRAM, FastTrack IDE RAID (14GIG), Marvel G200


[This message has been edited by JerryH (edited 25 October 1999).]