View Full Version : I WANT IT!

25th September 1999, 08:01
Just saw some info on a VCR that stopped me in my tracks:

Sony WV-D9000 dual VCR miniDV/DVCAM/SVHS/VHS VCR w/firewire and built-in TBC.

Talk about the perfect VCR for use with the RT-2000!!

Now all I need is $2900 USD and it's mine ;-)

My bank will begin accepting contributions next week (G).

Dr. Mordrid

[This message has been edited by DrMordrid (edited 09-25-1999).]

jeff b
25th September 1999, 12:13
should I use the money for a down payment on a new Subaru Outback, or buy this deck...?

Keith Wiebe
25th September 1999, 12:20
I'm still trying to get my Rainbow Runner to quit skipping here and there when playing back! Things are getting cheap though for the advanced beginner! I have been told that a $700 digital 8 camcorder will record from analog better than any SVHS machine! The problem is that as this equipment gets cheaper to compete with broadcasting equipment, the broadcast equipment gets bumped up a notch that no amatateur can aford again! That money would make a nice downpayment on a Ford newer style pickup to replace my 83 Ranger Diesel.

25th September 1999, 15:16
Ford Smord....

I want one of those new HUGE Y2K Dodge Power Wagons.

Damn thing looks like it belongs in the next Terminator movie.

Dr. Mordrid

[This message has been edited by DrMordrid (edited 09-25-1999).]

26th September 1999, 10:11
Dr Mordrid, you Americans really go for big in a very big way, i've seen pictures of that Dogde Y2K Powerwagon and boy is it big, you make us Europeans in our dainty little cars and small roads look like flies. Is it a macho thing with your cars over there, the bigger the better????


26th September 1999, 14:51
For the record our main vehicle is a Dodge 350 RAM LE 9 passenger 1 ton (load) full sized van with a 360 cid V8 and 4 speed automatic. As in able to tow a 60' boat at 110 km/h EASILY.

More Americans buy SUV's, vans and trucks than buy cars by a 2-1 margin at least. There are several factors that contribute to large vehicles being popular;

1. Gas is relatively cheap.

2. On average Americans are larger. Not only heavier but taller. This cuts out small cars for the majority of men who are 6' tall or over, some by a wide margin. Even many women are close to 6' here. My daughter Sabrina is 5'10.5". Son Kurt is 6'2". Son Chris is 6' even. I'm 6'1.5". None of us like driving with our knees around our ears.

4. We generally have longer drives than Europeans and few locales have mass transit. We drive 400 miles one way to our second home in northern Michigan, near the Straits of Mackinaw, on many weekends. This is especially true during small game and deer season. That's Mom, Dad, the two older kids and their mates, Chris, Erik and two dogs: 70 and 110 lbs. Try that in a Whoop-te-Doo Subaru.

5. Generally larger vehicles are safer. This appeals to families with children. Most Sport Utility Vehicles are now sold to women, especially single mothers.

6. Americans do a lot of do-it-yourself home improvement in a big way. There is a home improvement warehouse about every 5-10 miles in metro areas. This means carrying home wallboard, paneling and lumber that would crush a small car, much less fit in it. We built our own master bath addition, two decks and a swing arbor.

7. You've never seen the load from the bi-weekly trip to the grocery/department/clothing stores for this bunch.

8. Michigan has more coastline than any state in the US. This means lots of huge trucks so folks can tow those 20'-60' boats you see EVERYWHERE. Even the folks living in low income housing in our area have boats, and we're 12 miles from the coastline. Sheesh....

9. Add to that the other states from Washington to Califlakey and from Maine to Texas and you have many tens of millions of boaters who need big trucks to tow their toys. Even landlocked states like Idaho have zillions of boaters. Why? Fishing on the rivers and lakes. Fishing is so popular you can even buy bait in the grocery stores and gas stations around here.

10. Then there are the millions of campers. They take cross-coutry trips in their mobile homes and trailers, most running 30-65 feet long. Most trailers towed are by big trucks at least as powerful as the Power Wagon. A guy down the street has a 1.5 ton Dodge RAM 4WD pickup (the one that looks like a Semi) with a 10 cyl. engine taken from the Dodge Viper for towing his. This is a production model truck.

11. Then there are the macho types who four-wheel up side of mountains on the weekends. They make up about .5% of truck owners.

Any more questions about Americans and trucks? ;-)

Dr. Mordrid

[This message has been edited by DrMordrid (edited 09-26-1999).]

26th September 1999, 15:11
Thanks for the lesson Doc http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

I worked for a while in a Landrover garage over here. Did you know that those babies carry 4 different spring rates/curves for each corner ? That's to cater for the fact that the driver usually weighs more than the passengers (true, don't laugh).

Another interesting fact (for those that didn't already know) is that the Landrover V8 3.5 litre unit is a design bought out from Buick way back when Buick reckoned it was a pile of shit and cashed in. True it took LR a few years to figure out what to do with it apart from install it in RangeRovers for the V8 kudos, but at last they got the hang of it and have produced newer versions up to 4.2L. That engine went on to power the Rover SDI, TVR and Triumph Stags. It is also commonly found in Ford Escort mark 1 & 2, and I have even seen one installed in a Mazda RX7.

On the other hand, I can testify that trailing anything behind a Landrover for more than an hour at a time is not a comfortable experience. I'd hate to drag anything 400 miles !

26th September 1999, 15:25
The Rovers loading makes perfect sense. It's done here too. Think about it:

Dad usually drives & is the largest.

Mom usually rides shotgun and is next largest, but not as big as Dad.

The kiddies are in the rear and are generally the lightest members of the family.

The average family has two kids. The older is most often larger and wants to sit behind Dad in a presumed proximity to the succession of power (G).

4 locations, 4 loads with the heaviest 2 on the drivers side.

As for driving 400 miles with the family and boat:

With the Dodge van you don't even notice the boat's back there.

There's no problem with it jacknifing under braking as the boat trailer has electric brakes triggered by the vans brakes.

Changes in the trailers tongue loading are handled by an automatic air pump operating on pneumatic shocks in the rear of the van.

The only time I need be concerned with the boat is backing it into/out of the water or parking.

Dr. Mordrid

[This message has been edited by DrMordrid (edited 09-26-1999).]

Keith Wiebe
26th September 1999, 15:44
I've just got Ford blue running in my veins! I did see the real old(built in the 50's) Powerwagon sitting on the back of Dodg'es newer series truck at the Detroit Auto Show about 4 yrs ago and it looked neat and that is what the new one was shaped after I believe.
Was that Buick V-8 the aluminum block engine from the early 60's? GM did some crazy things back then!
A lot of these american cars are in fact built from parts made in Eupope and Japan. The engines in the Ford Explorer came from Germany, trans from France. The manual trans in the Ranger, Explorer, and F150 come from Mazda in Japan. I personally drive the only rear wheel car non sports car made here (actually Canada)-Crown Vic (Linc. Town Car shares same chassis).

26th September 1999, 16:02
First of all,

That deck is perfect for someone like me http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif
Imagine.. XL1 -> RT2000 -> Sony WV-D9000 all in DV http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Second thing,
The biggest car I owned was the Chevy Malabu, The transmition blew, so I bought a 1980 Camaro, the trany blew on that one too, so I bought a 1984 Dodge 400 and I blew the transmition on it also http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

I thought to my self maybe I'm a bit hard on automatic transmitions so I thought I should by Japaneeze with a manual trany and I went for an Acura Integra.
Then as I was driving home one day I happened to pass by an EX Maserati dealer test drove the biturbo SI and bought it http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Now a doctor from the States wants to buy it, so now I'm looking at a Maserati 430..
Wish me luck http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif


26th September 1999, 17:47
Speaking of cars in the past....

I'll match you one 1970 Porsche 911S and raise you one 1972 Ferrari Dino 246 GT ;-)

The Porsche lost favor when one of the rear control arms let go mid-turn ;-)

The Ferrari lost favor when I acquired a family :-((

Dr. Mordrid

26th September 1999, 17:48
Elie, for your sake I hope that every Maserati comes equipped with a manual transmission!

By the way, the 5-speed in my '87 Fiero is working fine. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

26th September 1999, 18:13
I don't know if it's me or not but I do tend to use the automatic transmition as a standard shifting from 1 to 2 to D and back to 1 http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

And yes every Maserati I own and will ever own will have a 5 speed ZF gear box otherwise
I'll just break them all.

I only have a wife no kids yet so until a baby arrives, I'll be having as much fun as I can with cars and computers ever! http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif


26th September 1999, 18:51
Elie, did I ever mention that I accept donations http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif?

Doc, just sell your wifes sewing machine and you're half way there on the VCR http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif


26th September 1999, 21:13
Ain't that the f*****g truth!!!!

Did I tell you she bought an embroidery machine this spring? Another 2 grand plus into the craft room.

And she cringed when I bought that 2 gigs of RAM sticks. Sheesh....

Dr. Mordrid

Brian Ellis
27th September 1999, 06:50
Interesting thread. Now I understand why the USA cannot make the same commitments to the Kyoto protocol on global warming as most other countries. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/frown.gif As for bigger being safer, think of the Voyager! http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/frown.gif http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/frown.gif With this argument, why not a Sherman tank? Now that was a real guzzler http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/frown.gif

Incidentally, the other day I gave a ride to a friend in my Honda CRV (2 litres). He reacted on getting in the car that it seemed bigger inside than his car (Nissan Patrol 3,5 litres diesel). So we measured it: it was 5 cm shorter from the back load area roof to floor and practically the same in payload width and length. It will seat 4 - 5 tall persons (I'm 1 m 83 and there is at least 10 cm headroom over my head, even when sitting tall). Being a petrol (gas) engine, mine is nippier, quieter and more comfortable for long drives (4 wheel independent suspension, rare for 4-WD vehicles, so much less unsprung weight). I get 9,3 - 10 l/100 km lead-free in winter (slightly more in summer because of the aircon): he gets about the same, as diesels are more efficient. However, he has one thing with his vehicle that I don't: double the chance of being carcinogenic! I know which I would rather drive for a full day, and it ain't his. Big ain't always beautiful.

Incidentally, ADAC (the national German automobile club) does safety tests on many cars, often with surprising results. Three makes that have recently come out with less than good results (I forget which models) were Volvo, Mercedes and BMW. I remember that the Toyota Camry came out well because I had one at that time. I don't remember seeing anything about 4-WD models and pickups but I think most of them are probably less good than saloon cars because the rigid chassis offers less of a "crumpling absorption zone" than smaller cars. Certainly, many vans have failed miserably on safety tests, the best being the Renault Espace and the worst the Voyager.

I therefore thing that gas-guzzling capacity and safety are two entirely independent parameters. OK, I would not like to drive a Citroen 2CV full speed into MACK truck going in the opposite direction.

I hope this will heat up the debate http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Brian (the terrible)

27th September 1999, 07:19
There is one army amphibia in use in Moscow as civilian vehicle. 12 ton car was transformed into comfortable "Van". Some of steel was removed.
The vehicle is capable to drive everywhere, including absence of any road. It can easily swim, because it has built-in water-pumping engine for this. So - a car and a boat in one. The engine is just 400 hp, the wheel is over one meter!

The car was registered in Moscow driving inspection and used for tree years. It is definitely safe because of 12 tons mass http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif.

Unfortunately, I drive only 75 hp car with average fuel consumption of 8.5 l/100 km in summer. It has only 950 kg mass.

Hope next time I buy a really good one - 10 ton is enough for me http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif


27th September 1999, 17:59
The usual test is a headon collision with either another vehicle or a brick wall. Not realistic at all. When applied to real-world scenarios the tests don't prove much.

Most collisions are with the rear end of another vehicle giving lots of crumple in one if not both vehicles. The next most common is a side collision where the crumple zone is moot.

As for the safety of a van:

If someone rear-ends me there is 6 feet of metal to crush before you hit a seat, 12 feet to hit me from behind.

If I rear-end someone that vehicles bumper does not hit in my plane at all, but 2 feet below my lowest vital area.

If someone hits the side of the van my vital areas are still 2-4 feet above the impact.

Add air bags and seat belts and things are pretty safe up there.

Now if some bozo in a Yugo wants to claim he didn't see me and ricochet off the van he's more than welcome to....

Dr. Mordrid

[This message has been edited by DrMordrid (edited 09-28-1999).]

evil twin
27th September 1999, 18:37

yugo we allgo- http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif


27th September 1999, 18:46
HA HA HA HA, that was so funny evil. Where o where do you come up with these jokes http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

That's about as funny as lighting a fart http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif


evil twin
27th September 1999, 18:53

you mean like in a plasma filled room?- http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif


27th September 1999, 19:02
No No No. I was referring to the blue flame game.


evil twin
27th September 1999, 19:14
i tried that once and ended having a sausage roast - http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif


27th September 1999, 19:28
Howdy marathon man. So that would mean that you are also bald http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif


evil twin
27th September 1999, 19:40
well i wouldn't say bald but i do have those thigh burns on my head, if you know what i mean- http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif


28th September 1999, 01:35
I've currently got a Lotus Elise, in bright yellow. Don't know if you guy's over the pond have heard of this cracking little car, but by god does it go and handle. I find that that is the problem with American cars, they're big and some can go very fast in a straight line, but, not around corners


28th September 1999, 02:06

I saw a T reg Elise on the A329(M) yesterday morning and it was completely burnt out. Hope it's not a design fault. I'd watch out if I were you !!

Crumple zones and rollbars don't help much if the engine catches fire. Not that I'm jealous of course and I don't want to scare you.

28th September 1999, 09:20

A Lotus Elise eh http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif
Man I love those cars, I just wish whoever is in charge of allowing cars like the Elise/Lancia Delta Integrale HF/Renault/Rover/Alphas/Fiats (don't laugh they have some nice sports cars too) into Canada would get their heads out of their A**ES and smell the coffee for a change!
This really upsets me http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/frown.gif (you know being a car fanatic and all)

Anyway Enjoy your Elise dude, the Nerberg ring should be a great track for starters http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif


28th September 1999, 10:30

We used to sell Lancias here, and the Delta Integrale was also one of my favorites, even though it nearly caused me to run into someone elses behind when I started overtaking (I wasn't fast enough in taking the other lane http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif ).


[This message has been edited by Pertti (edited 09-28-1999).]

28th September 1999, 11:35
I have a Mercury Grand Marquis, the next best thing to a SUV. It's body on frame, rear wheel drive, 5 star crash test. It's the same as the Crown Vic, which all the Cops drive. I'm told they can cut through an SUV like a knife, but I don't beleive it.

If I could afford it I'd probably want to get the new Ford Excursion which is bigger than a Suburban. I want a 5 passenger ski boat too (anyone have any advice for buying a boat? http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif ) Alot of the American biggies are coming with LCD TVs so get one and bring your laptop with a RT200 equipped docking station and let your wife do the driving. At least if you crash your RT2000 wont get hurt.

28th September 1999, 14:54
This forum scares me, I'm outta here...

28th September 1999, 15:53
Crash stories!! YES!!

Going southbound and approached an intersection with a green light. There was a dual trailer semi in left turn lane blocking the view of the oncoming crossing traffic. I pulled into the intersection....

The light was green in both directions. Witnessed by a police officer who said she just closed her eyes and started praying.

I was driving a 1978 Cadillac Eldorado (502 CID, front wheel drive, 225 inches long, 5,600 + lbs).

A full sized Ford 3/4 ton van hit my left front with his right front fender at 50mph.

The caddy needed a frame straightening, hood, grill, fender etc. and was on the road in a few days.

The vans side was peeled off from the front to the rear along the welds like a sardine can. Doors ripped off too. Totaled.

The impact spun that Caddy a full rotation and a half.


Dr. Mordrid

29th September 1999, 01:26
Crashes huh,

How about crashing doing 110 mph on an airfield in a 1974 racing Porche whilst filming a pilot for a car program a couple of years ago. Got out with a few bruises that all, boy that car tough and quick.

The Intergrale, is an awesome car but has now been eclipsed by the Subaru Imprezza, and Mitsubishi Galant EVO VI, gone round a rally course with an instructor in the Imprezza and in a small narrow lane with fenced with trees we were easily doing over a ton and going round corners at 90 mph, never want to do that again.

Scott, I'll have to ask around about the fire thing, hope its just a one off. Getting rid of the Elise next year for a BMW M5, settling down you see and i need the extra seats (sigh)


Brian Ellis
29th September 1999, 09:51
Yeah! You can get horrendous crashes with everyone walking out uninjured and other, minor ones with 4 dead. My worst experience: I was in a brand new Toyota Camry travelling c. 60 km/h on the inside lane and a 28 tonner was in the outside lane and "did not know I was there" (even though we had been running parallel for 300 metres). He decided to change lanes and neatly flicked me in the rear right-hand side, so that I ended up sideways in front of him, being pushed sideways. We carried on in such a peculiar coitus position for about 100 m until he pushed me into a lamp post. I had slight whiplash as only injury: had to wear a collar for 5 days. I was able to crawl out the right hand side back door, the truck jamming both LH doors and the lamp post the front RH one. Needless to say, the Camry was more than a total write off, the average width being reduced by 40 -50 cm. For the anecdote, when the cops arrived, one of them asked where the driver of the Camry was and I said that I was he. He blinked at me as if to say he didn't believe it and then said, "Well, I won't need to ask you if you were wearing your seat belt". At the time, I thought my time had come with a truck radiator on my left and the lamp post coming at me at a goodly rate of knots (it ended up about 25 cm from my right elbow).

In 45 years driving, this was the only serious incident I've been involved in.

Brian (the terrible)

[This message has been edited by Brian Ellis (edited 09-29-1999).]

5th October 1999, 06:26

Elise to M5, settling down!!! You mean the new M5, the one with the engine de-tuned to 400 nags??

You must have a very understanding settling partner :-) I managed to con mine into a sensible family car (Peugeot 406). She didn't notice that we got the 3 litre but that's OK. I still have my old 525i but it is getting a bit long in the tooth for real fun.


5th October 1999, 10:34

Yeah, wish i could afford the new one 400 bhp, ouch. No its going to be a 95/96 model with 340 horse power, still not bad eh. My misses is a lot smarter than she looks so i gotta be careful, she might want a Nissan instead. 525i's are alright and i like peugeots, verey good handling and ride.


5th October 1999, 10:43
Bringing this full circle;


Dr. Mordrid

5th October 1999, 11:15
Well I'm more than happy with my Espace. Now I wonder if I could get hold of that Williams F1 version......

5th October 1999, 12:54
OK I desperately need to ask -

Is it true, a buddy of mine just returned from the USA and stated that the speed limit in Florida was 45mph in the daytime and only 35mph at night.

Is it true? I was told it was something to do with creatures (non human)on the road at night.

Geez - you only need 10Horse power to go that fast!!!

Love to all.



Mark F
5th October 1999, 13:56
Biker- Don't worry it's as much as 70MPH in some areas of the highways.

Mark F.

OH NO, my retractable cup holder swallowed a CD

[This message has been edited by Mark F (edited 10-06-1999).]

5th October 1999, 21:14
Them creatures are called GATORS my friend, as in several hundred pounds each and on a reproductive tear. That goes to show how overprotecting a species can boomerang on you.

In Michigan we have a similar problem: over 2.5 million whitetail deer, mostly near populated areas. They are a leading cause of single car accidents here. Over a million deer hunters a year and seasons running from Oct. to Jan. can't harvest enough of them to keep the population down.

Then there are the elk (northern 2/3 of the state) and panthers. Yes, panthers. Within 20 miles of Detroit. Photographed by the police and confirmed by the Dept. of Natural Resources.

In fact the DNR chief ran into one on the beach in the upper part of the State a few years ago. Lucky for him all the panther wanted was a drink ;-))

Dr. Mordrid

Brian Ellis
6th October 1999, 01:37
Bloody Hell, Doc! One million hunters can't shoot an average of two deer each in 4 months? Are they blind or what? I bet I know what you can do: invite Cypriot hunters to your State. I'll guarantee there will not be a living deer within one month (OK your human population would also be somewhat reduced because they will fire at anything that moves from a sparrow to an elk). The French would make a second best.

This would have a second beneficial effect: I would not have to put up with the shooting just outside our property and being peppered with lead shot.

Brian (the terrible)

6th October 1999, 08:33
The Michigan firearms season only lasts two weeks starting Nov. 15th. The rest is archery season except for an overlapping two week muzzle loading firearms season in Dec. Crossbows are not allowed.

Also there is no baiting and you can only use shotguns with slugs or muzzle loaders in the lower part of the state where the population density is high. Rifles are allowed only in the upper half.

I hunt all three seasons using a Remington 300 magnum, a Mossberg 12 guage 3" magnum rifled slug shotgun, a .50 cal Thompson Center Hawken plains rifle and a 90 lb pull Bear compound bow.

Michigan deer are SMART. YOU try getting a wily whitetail with a bow. Not easy my friend, even with a 300+ ft/sec compound and razor tips.

Even though deer live in close proximity to people statewide they are nowhere near docile or stupid like, apparently, Eurodeer.

Dr. Mordrid

Brian Ellis
8th October 1999, 00:05

Michigan deer are a problem. Shooting season lasts 2 weeks. Ergo, extend the shooting season. Doooeh!

PS I don't think Eurodeer are stupid, either, but the Cypriots don't shoot 'em, anyway. Why? 'Cos there aren't any on the island. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/frown.gif
The only large mammal is the moufflon, a highly protected wild sheep and I think the penalty for killing one would be worse than for killing a man (a number shot by hunters each year). BTW, a Euro directive proposes the elimination of lead from bullets because there is a risk that anyone shot in the head or heart may suffer from lead poisoning http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Brian (the terrible)

9th October 1999, 07:37
Don't laugh. A lead shot ban is already in effect here for waterfowl so it doesn't pollute the wetland sediments.

Most shot is now steel, which is great on shotgun barrels and lousy for long shots.

Maybe someday they'll let us use depleted uranium ;-))

Dr. Mordrid

9th October 1999, 10:32
That'll be handy if you discover any armoured deer Doc. Has anyone thought of using nylon shot yet ?

Lead shot was banned for fishing purposes over here in the UK 10 years ago. Apparently because it was poisoning swans.

9th October 1999, 11:38
We WISH someone would poison swans. The trumpeter swans here are taking over native habitats for ducks and other waterfowl. Just two emptied a wetland neare here of ducks, geese and other birds.

As for the deer: if I want to "make their day" I take out the .50 Hawken black powder plains rifle. It' shoots a 410 grain antimony hardened .50 cal bullet at 2700+ feet/sec. That's no estimate, it's by chronograph. It also kicks like a Missouri jackass.

The last deer I shot with the Hawken did a 180 and was thrown 6 feet sideways. It can also shoot through trees up to 8" thick and still do a one shot kill on whatever's on the other side.

We Michigan woodland hunters feel about our rifles like we feel about our trucks: the badder the better ;-))

Dr. Mordrid

9th October 1999, 11:56
Do you need a special license for shooting trees, or is this part of the general hunting license ?

I'd also like to know if there is an open season on Maples ? http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

And for th record, I haven't fired my Weiruch HK77 for over 6 years because I live in a built-up area. Although it is a legal airweapon, the ability to fire over to public roads means that I can't use the damned thing. I don't think that I even finished firing the gun in !

9th October 1999, 14:09
Nawww...the Sportsmens license covers all non-humanoid lifeforms but migratory birds. The Feds get to sell the tag for them.

Maples we don't shoot, we tap 'em for syrup (G).

I have an air weapon too: a .22 pump rifle I use to teach the kids & wife how to shoot. It's also good for vermin if you use steel darts.

After the air gun I move 'em up to the .30-06 Remington pump rifle, the Winchester bolt 300 Magnum and .44 magnum semi-auto Ruger carbine.

Then I teach them the pistols: Ruger Blackhawk .44 mag revolver and Beretta 9mm auto. There are pistol big game hunting seasons too you see....

The shotguns and black powder weapons are all mine ;-)

Dr. Mordrid