OpenGL games crashing.

[jtracy]

I've been trying to fix this for more than a month and no luck...

I seem to be having a serious problem with my Matrox g400 16mb video card. I've tried everything I can think of. This will be a very long message and an equally confusing problem, so I hope you're ready for it.

This is about as detailed of a description of the problem as I can come with. It happens whenever I play any OpenGL game in Win98SE (all of mine are first person shooters, mostly based on the Quake 2 engine). It plays perfectly and very quickly for the first map (this can be either the first level, the intro cut scene, or a demo at the title screen). But when that map is done with, it tries to load the second map. This is where it crashes. It usually finishes loading the map into memory immediately before the crash.

Now a description of the crash: It does not ever freeze the system, it just quits out of the game and displayes with no message box, dialogue box, error message, etc. And when it's over, I'm in a 16bit 640x480 desktop with no taskbar. The effect is exactly the same in ALL games. This might be because all of them are based on the Quake2 engine, except for Halflife and Quake, which are both based on the Quake 1 engine; and then there's System Shock 2, which I think is a Direct3D game.

All Direct3D games work fine except for System Shock 2, which gives the exact same error as the OpenGL games. Strange.

It is very bizzarre that this happens at the second level for every game, and has always happenned since I got the video card a few months back. I have no idea why it would be doing this. I have no shortage of memory; I have 128 + 32 PC100 DIMMs, plus a defragmented 96mb swapfile on my hard drive. And yes, I did try to use a regular "managed by Windows" swapfile with no luck.

This is big a list of things I've tried. Please keep this in mind: I do not overclock any parts in my system, and I have no other video cards. Also, the card is on IRQ 11, only shared with an IRQ holder.

BIOS:

I disabled "frame buffer posted write".

I disabled all video caching/shadowing/snooping.

I tried all AGP arpeture sizes. Currently 256.

I tried disabling AGP turbo mode.

I updated the motherboard BIOS to the latest version 1.0.0.8.

When the latest official motherboard BIOS didn't help, I updated the it to the latest beta version, 1.0.0.9b1.


WINDOWS TWEAKS:

I've disabled all drive compression and buffers/caching in case it's having a problem reading the levels.

I disabled all autostart programs, and ran the games without interference from any other programs that may be running in background.


GAMES:

I tried starting games in 16bit 640x480 mode, not to mention every other possible mode.

I tried deleting config.cfg files for all games, thus starting with all default settings.

I tried completely re-installing all games.


DRIVERS:

I installed all versions of the Matrox Powerdesk drivers. Currently 5.30, since they are clearly the most stable.

When I uninstalled drivers, I used the uninstaller utility, and also searched and deleted all filles beginning with MGA*.*, G400*.*, MATROX*.*, and I even deleted everything out of registry that contained those.

When re-installing, I had it detect "Default VGA" and then ran setup.exe.

I tried TurboGL drivers 1.0002. Currently uninstalled.

I tried WickedGL 3DFX drivers with the XGL GLide wrapper. This actually lets the game load 3 levels before crashing. Very wierd. Both the wrapper and the 3DFX drivers are uninstalled.

I commented out MS-DOS drivers in config.sys/autoexec.bat

I tried to install the AMD "AGP miniport" driver.

I upgraded the ALi AGP drivers to the latest version, 1.65e

I re-installed my monitor as a default superVGA. Refresh rate is correct.

I opened the device manager under safe mode and deleted all drivers for components that are no longer there.


HARDWARE:

I've tried re-seating the card every way possible. I even loosened the scews holding the plate on the front when it didn't go in straight because of the case.

I tried playing games after removing various parts from my PC (cd-rom, modem, sound card, ethernet, etc).

I recently upgraded my processor from a K6-2/300 to a K6-2/400 after having the problem.


REGISTRY SETTINGS:

I tried the "tweakutil.exe" that is supposed to force AGP 1x.

I tried "AGP Switcher.exe" that switches between AGP 1x and 2x. Currently 1x.

I tried the "reg hack" to enable AGP 1x/2x on matroxusers.com. I backed up the previous settings and restored them when the hack didn't work.

I tried turning on/off busmastering. Currently off.

I tried turning off vsync.


Those are all the thing I can remember trying. Also, when flashing my BIOS, I noticed that it not only had a very old BIOS version, but it had also been flashed twice already. Could this be a refurbished video card? I hope you can help me.

------------------
My hardware:

Matrox Millenium G400 16mb
Asus P5a-b super socket7 motherboard
K6-2 300 processor
128mb pc-100 SDRAM

My software:

Matrox bios version 1.3
Matrox drivers 5.41
TurboGL 1.0002
Motherboard bios version 1009b1
Directx version 7a
Windows version 98SE

[Kruzin]

You've tried a lot of stuff, and seem to have your ducks all in a row.

Only things I can think of to try off hand:
-Try running just one DIMM of RAM at a time.
-Put the card in another system to see if it does it in that system too.

[paulcs]

Have you tried play games with the case open? How hot is it getting in there?

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[Rags]

I believe Paul has this one nailed, this happens to me when my system gets too hot. Open up that case and place a room fan blowing towards the inside of your case, and see if it still happens.

[jtracy]

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. As a matter of fact, I have tried playing it with the cover off, but I think I'm gonna try it with some serious cooling pretty soon.

And I haven't tried running with one RAM chip at a time. This is a good suggestion because while they are the same speed, they are diferent sizes and from different manufacturers; not to mention the fact that the were bought about a year apart.

Thanks again. I'm crossing my fingers...

[Earl Hetzer]

hoi jtracy
pls contact me
ICQ 14231282

i have the same problem here..
AND I WANT TO FIX THIS !!!!


Matrox Millenium G400 32mb SH
MSI 5169 socket7 motherboard
K6-2 450 processor
128mb

[cjolley]

Do try with bus-mastering back on.
No solution that works only with bus-mastering off is a real solution.
Hang in there.
Chuck

PS Have you checked that your AGP divider setting is set to 2/3 not 1/1 ?

[This message has been edited by cjolley (edited 30 January 2000).]

[jtracy]

Thanks again for the replies I have tried a few other tricks, mostly suggested by you guys.

Running with case off: I looked at the case temperature in the BIOS after playing the same GLquake level for about 20mins till it crashed. It was 132F on the proc, 93F on the mobo. Sounds kinda hot, so I got my mom's HUGE floor fan that's larger than my case, laid my open case on its side, set the case on its side, laid the fan on top of the case, and set the fan to HIGH. I got 104F on the proc, 69F on the mobo. After trying several games, and rebooting between each one, I found tat the results are the same unfortunately.

RAM: I tried playing the games with just the 128mb chip. No change. Then I tried the same with the 32mb stick (and a windows managed swapfile), and the games wouldn't even start. i asume it's due to the lack of real memory since it didn't do that when I had both chips in.

Bus mastering on: I did try turning bus mastering on/off several times.

AGP divider: My motherboard BIOS only supports AGP1x, so it has no settings for AGP divider. This is also the reason why I tried so many hacks to make sure it was at AGP1x.

Next, I will try to back up my system.dat and replace it with system.1st, thus making a fresh install. I'll let you know how it goes.

I'll talk to you soon on ICQ, Earl.

[jtracy]

... and as for trying the card in another system, that's pretty much what Matrox tech support is telling me. I wish one of my other computers had AGP.

[Scout255]

i always had this problem when i undervoltaged my processors accidentally
you may wish to try upping the voltage, as your processor may not working at those danjerously hot temperatures.
try www.2cooltek.com for some solutions.

[Strider]

I was getting the same problem in Q3 (openGL) and UT (D3D)! While trying to load up a level in Q3 it would dump me out to the desktop at low res. UT would run for a bit before crashing out with an error.

It my system the problem was memory managment! The problem was caused by AGP aperture of 256. Setting it to 64 (system ram is 128) fixes all problems. I can run Q3 with 256 meg aperture only if I turn down the texture detail (i.e. max texture detail + 256 AGP ap. = crash).

jtracy, try the following.. remove the 32 meg dimm, set AGP aperture to 64, and set swap file to double what you have now. See if it makes a difference. I know you tried the memory and aperture before, but I wonder if its the combination that makes the difference.

[FaRaN]

You updated your mobo/g400 bios to latest version?

Doesn't any of your friends have a PC with AGP? If so...

Good Luck!

[[paradox]]

Hi,

Im having almost the same problem as you except I can run OpenGL fine its Direct3D where my problems arise. If anyone can help me there, take alook in my thread.

Stolen from another thread have u tried enabling IRQ for VGA ? It seems to have helped some other people.

Also have a look here: http://www.geocities.com/charismok7/...uide/index.htm
and also http://epsilon.silicon.net.my/adrian/

[jtracy]

Thanks again for the help. I've tried some other things, but there's a few more things I'm gonna do before an RMA.

Anyway, I did a test fresh install of Win98. It didn't do anything new, so I'm glad I kept backups.

BIOS versions: As usual, I have the latest BIOS. However, I did hear about 1.0.1.0 beta BIOS for my mobo, and after scanning every ASUS ftp site, I finally found it on the German FTP. Unfortunately, the new BIOS does nothing. Oh well.

Heating: Please tell me what is a reasonable temperature to have my proc/mobo set at. I have no clue!

Chip/arpeture/swap adjustment: Thanks for the suggestion! This sounds like a good one, since I in fact did not try that combination. And if it worked for one guy... well, I gotta see if it works for me.

VGA IRQ: VGA IRQ has always been enabled, and it's alone at #11. I did try to disable IRQ, but nothing new happened.

Those of you who are having the same problem as I, please post things that are giving different results. Maybe we can find a solution together.

[Strider]

Make sure you keep irq assignment for the video card enabled! IRQ 11 is great place for the G400.

The fact that your problem occours in both openGL and a specific D3D title makes it sound very similar to the problem with my system. I am hoping that the same solution will work.

When you set your aperture to 64 megs, did you try System Shock2, or only openGL games? As you make adjustments, try both D3D and openGL to see if anything improves. I would stick with 5.30 driver set. Does System Shock2 also reduce the resolution when you get dumped out? That sounds like an openGL game response.