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View Full Version : DROP G400 AND BUY VOODOO3 ????



linhartm
17th October 1999, 01:15
Hi !
I have serious troubles, to get high framerates at Quake. I use the G400max with a P2-300, 128MB RAM and Win98. The framerates at glquake are about 40fps (640x480, timedemo demo1). When playing over the internet, it slows down to 9 fps !! (I tested the connection, and get 50 fps with qwcl.exe and 320x200).
The second problem with glquake is, the textures are all over spotted with colors (example : www.atreyu.de/quake.jpg (http://www.atreyu.de/quake.jpg) ).

I have tried several days to fix this problems, new win98 instalation, new drivers, new game installation, various patches,....

Have anyone an idea ? My idea is to change to the Voodoo 3 (where i got 99fps at glquake !!)

Thanks, Michael

linhart@teleweb.at

Sean Segel
17th October 1999, 01:35
You shouldn't have framerates that low unless your motherboard isn't AGP 2.0 spec, you have a hardware confliction, or a problem with your ISP/modem. Knowing that you have a p2-300, I think that you would be happier with the Voodoo3.

My advice is to take back the G400 for a Voodoo3 3000 or upgrade your cpu to a P3-450+. Remember if your motherboard isn't up to AGP 2.0 spec you will have the same problems or a non-working piece of hardware.

Thanks,

Sean

linhartm
17th October 1999, 01:48
Thanks Sean !

I use a ASUS P2L97 Mainboard. I'm not sure if it is AGP 2.0 spec. (It's about 18 month old)
I don't think its a problem with my ISP, because playing with a non gl-client and low resolution, i have average framerates of 50.

The non working pice of hardware must be the g400 ;-/ . But other games (like unreal tournament) are working properly (~ 30 fps over the internet). So I dont think its bad hardware (maybe the 'old' p2-300), but problems with GL-Games like GLQUAKE.

Michael

Sean Segel
17th October 1999, 02:14
Hi Linhartm,

If your Asus P2L97 motherboard is Revision 1.05 or earlier you dont have AGP 2.0 spec.

Take a look at this:
http://www.asus.com.tw/Products/Techref/Misc/rivatnt.html

Thanks,

Sean

absalom
17th October 1999, 08:50
First of all qwcl.exe isn't 3d acclerated at all. If you run that you will be using software quake. You need or want to use glqwcl.exe or better know as the glquakeworld client. I'll assume that's a typo anyway.

Secondly, everyone will get the funky colors in glquake using the g400. The way glquake goes about dynamic lighting is not something matrox's ICD agrees on. You have to disable dynamic lighting. Do this by going to the console and typing "r_dynamic 0". It's a tradeoff actually. This will make moving light sources such as flashes from someone firing or a rocket lighting up it's surrounding area no longer work. But the advantage here is you gain framerate, even more so in large firefights.

Thirdly, you can have a v3 3000 and an athlon 700 or whatever, and your framerate will still suck over the internet if your connection or the way it's setup is not adequate. Glquakeworld's framerate is determined by how much data your pumping through your modem/netcard. This is all controlled by the "rate" console command. If you have something better than a modem and it's solid, you should be ok. Try a rate of 5000 (go to the console and type "rate 5000" and it will be set) and your framerates should go as high as 72 fps at times, even at 1024x768 with your cpu (maybe low as 25). If your on a modem, you might get away with a rate of 5000 if you have a solid 56k connect. If you don't know the definition of solid connect this is what I call it: A totally rock solid connection is NO packet loss at HIGH bandwidth, NO line noise, hands down NO bullsh*t isp. If you have a winmodem you might as well throw it away as far as I'm concerned. If 5000 seems to lag you out the next thing to try is setting the rate to 3000 or 2500. This setting is more for the 33.6 or 28.8 users. Glquakeworld has a Lag-O-Meter and you should use it to review your internet performance. Go to the console again (hitting ~) and type "r_netgraph 1". What this will do is put a little box down in your bottom right corner of the screen and graph your connection as you play. Yellow lines mean buffer overruns (don't worry this won't affect your gameplay, it just means there's a little more data coming in than your modem can handle). Red lines mean packet loss (not bad as long as it's not excessive). Blue lines are the BAD ones... they mean your connection can't handle the load. There is also the controversy over "cl_nodelta" command. If your getting alot of blue lines and it becomes totally unplayable, disabling delta compression becomes a last resort. It's an ugly thing to do this because delta compression uses ALOT less bandwidth for what you get. You effectively cut your rate in half by disabling it which could bring your framerates down too. Glquakeworld does have a minimum framerate cap built into it. You cannot force it to have a maximum framerate of less than 30 fps, so the engine will try it's best to run 30 fps no matter what. But your connection will largely determine whether you'll even make it to 30 fps... not the hardware. The hardware you have is more than enough considering how old glquake is. If your not getting 30 fps average with what you have, then it's something else. I would guess your connection, but it could be another conflict such as agp. Either way, it's not the g400's fault your getting low framerates... trust me. I've been playing quake since glquake came out on a voodoo1, and my framerate never got lower than 25 fps at 640x480.... and this was on a ppro 233 and a 56k connect. The g400 should smoke even at 1024x768 if all things fall into place.

[This message has been edited by absalom (edited 17 October 1999).]

linhartm
17th October 1999, 14:47
Hi Absalom !

"r_dynamic 0" was a very good idea ! so the color spots disappeared.

I know, the internet is the bottleneck, but i'm playing quake for a long time too, and know when i have a good connection. I'm using a cablemodem with 300kBit to the game server, so i can call it a rock solid connection ;-)
And playing with software mode, i get about 30 fps (minimum !), when using glqwcl.exe 9 fps.
Then i run the timedemo in gl-mode with a voodoo 3-3000 (99fps) and using the g400c : 38 fps !!!

So, maybe the APG port on my ASUS P2L97 is not conform for the g400 ?!?!

I have used Matrox cards for a long time now, at last the millenium 2 and a voodoo 1. Then i did an upgrade to the Voodoo 3-3000, and everything worked fine & fast. Then i had a problem with the voodoo3 and my video capture card. because it worked with the matrox cards before, i decided to bye the g400.
But now, when i count 1+1, i see that the g400 isn't the right card... (and the problem with the capture card still exists, but this is the 2nd priority problem).

So to sum up :
-I'm a pro, so i'm confident with computers.
-I have spent serveral days trying to fix this problem (drivers, software, patches, new OS installations...)
-I don't want to spend even one more hour for this.

=> Buy a new mainbord, hoping the agp is better than my old one
or
=> Buy a Voodoo 3

Michael

linhartm
17th October 1999, 15:03
Hi !

I've forgotten to say : The probs above appear only with the best 3d shooter of the world and internet : QUAKE !!! (GL)

Playing Unreal Tournament on the net with 640x480, i got 30 fps...

So it's a problem only (?) with QUAKE. But it's the game i'm playing most of the time, so its soooo important for me.

Michael

[V12]
17th October 1999, 15:57
I did have the same problem with the P2L97 rev 1.05 and the MAX, i got lock-ups with almost every game. I had someone do the rework stated on the ASUS site and problems are gone! Everything works great now.

The problem isn't the MAX

Cheers

Zwisch
17th October 1999, 18:28
You will usually get heavy drops in fps on the net if you own a winmodem or some PCI modem with similar specs. The modems are huge CPU ressource grabber and will not leave any free space for CPU activity, hence why you would have these drops. Try closing all your other TSR's and making sure that you system resources are over 90% before starting a game and getting on the net. Newer drivers for your modem might also help.

Sean Segel
17th October 1999, 18:41
Hi Linhartm,

I think the point is that the Matrox G400 Max is not the right card for you unless you upgrade your motherboard/CPU. The Matrox G400 Max will be a good Direct3D performer for you.

Overall on your CPU the Voodoo3 3000 will excel both in Direct3D and OpenGL. If you were not a gamer, I would say to keep the G400. Otherwise, make the necessary modifications with what you have, or sell the G400, Keep $100, and get the Voodoo3 3000.

Thanks,

Sean

absalom
17th October 1999, 21:42
If he worships quake that much (I'm a former quakeaholic too... so I know the feelin') and has no desire to resolve the "marital" problems between his g400 and system, then the "divorice" of the two is up to him. I have SLI, so I can compare what the difference will be between the g400 and a v3 3000, and your not going to see that big a difference with a well configured system. You will definately get slightly better framerates with the 3dfx card and a slower cpu... no denial there. And as mud-colored ugly as quake is, the visual quality won't even be a factor.... If I were you, I'd try my best to resolve the conflict which could be anything ranging from irq's to motherboard bugs. If everything else fails, instead of ditching the g400max... go out and shell $30 or so for a voodoo2 card. For about $60-70 you can get SLI, which is what I use for quake/tribes still. SLI is just as fast and faster in some cases than a v3 3000, at the sacrifice of 2 pci slots. Some people run v3 2000's (pci) and g400's too. Unless you want to play quake at 1600x1200 at 60 fps, I personally don't see the need to "downgrade" from a g400max to a v3 3000. Of course any TNT fan would tell you to ditch them both and get a single card solution for all your troubles.... but as I tell my friends "some of us like having the best of both worlds."

Dyre
17th October 1999, 22:16
I had similar problems with my old mb and chip. It was a AMD 300 and i was trying to use my new G400 MAX on it. My friend runs a hardware review site and brought over his EXTRA vIII 3500 for me to try out. I had the same horriable frame rate problems. the motherboard and chip couldnt keep up. Until this weekend when i got my new pIII 450 and motherboard. This thing FLYs in qII and qIII, then i installed TurboGL. HOLY SHIT I CRAPPED MY PANTS! anyways. i love this. currently im typing on the second monitor and watching my downloads in irc on the other screen. totally rules.
my thoughts are a viii isnt going to help you if you have an inferior chip and motherboard. keep the max. buy some new toys. new toys are always good. : )

linhartm
18th October 1999, 01:37
Hi !

Thanks for all your tips !

So, i'll go out and get a new MB and CPU. (I think an Athlon will be the right choice).

When finished the upgrade, i'll tell you the results!

Michael

Snake-Eyes
18th October 1999, 06:40
You're wasting your money on that chip? Man, I wish I were you. I have a lowly P3-450 @ 558. Unfortunately, my wife limits me to a yearly allowance on computer parts, so my next jump won't be for several months now. http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/wink.gif

Definitely let us know how your Athlon works out.

------------------
Ace

IceStorm
19th October 1999, 07:17
- GLQuake and GLQuakeWorld work fine with the TurboGL driver, apart from weird colors in the status bar. you have to use -fullsbar to get the status bar from dissapearing on you.

- The ICD does the rainbow thing with the textures. Why you'd use the ICD if you have a K7 or PIII, I don't know.

- Why you'd mate a G400 or G400 MAX with anything less than a PIII-450 is beyond me, especially if you're trying to game on it. It simply doesn't work well with lower-end hardware. Once you drop below a PIII-450, go V3.

Just my $0.02

linhartm
20th October 1999, 01:29
Hehe, of course...

But unfortunately i own a P2-300 (it was the best CPU when i got it) and not a P3/K7.
So i have to play with the ICD and not turbo GL ;-).

...when the ASUS borad for then Athlon is available, i'll upgrade !

Michael