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The Rev
9th October 1999, 01:00
To Whomever It May Concern at Matrox,

I know of Matrox employee's visiting these boards and I hope this message will reach them. If you look through the Matrox Gaming forum you notice many posts about the lack of the G400's support for StarSiege Tribes (ftp://ftp.sierra.com/pub/demos/pc/TRIBESDemo.exe).

Although the G400 plays StarSiege Tribes very well in software mode, it severely lacks in OpenGL. OpenGL is needed in Starsiege Tribes as the software mode is quite sub-par. There are thousands upon thousands of widescale Tribes games played everyday and is still VERY popular. Yet I see no support of it from Matrox. I don't see any mention of it in the new TurboGL.

On my computer (specs below) I can run Starsiege Tribes in software mode at 1024x768 with my G400. But in OpenGL mode I can even run it smoothly (30+ FPS) at 640x480. I can count the frames. Plus there are many graphic flaws such as seperation of textures, missing textures, strange lighting. None of these flaws seem to be present on other leading graphic cards.

Please help all Matrox G400 owners who enjoy playing Starsiege Tribes, and fix these problems as soon as possible. It would be MUCH appreciated.

Thank you,
A Tribes Player http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Walrus Bonzo
9th October 1999, 06:27
I recently got my G400 16mb, installed PC5.25
and the OpenGL Beta.

Quake 2 is amazing.
Unreal sucks with OpenGL, and FLYs on DirectX.
Tribes doesn't even work in OpenGL mode, it just crashes to the desktop.
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron has lots of graphics corruption.

And my FlyVideo TV card no longer works without PD 4.33.

Looks like Matrox have their work cut out, and please work on Tribes as priority No. 1.

ASUS P5A 512K L3 cache.
AMD K6 3 450 (Not Overclocked... Yet)
128mb RAM
17" ADI 5G Monitor.
G400 16mb Single Head
FlyVideo 2 TV Card

DigitalWelfare
9th October 1999, 08:48
REV- from my experiences with TRIBES, and watching it reach its 10th update... Its the game, not the hardware. I origianlly played TRIBES with software, and was angry- it looked horrible on my G200... speed was perfect, but graphics were like an anus- nothing pretty.


So I decided to utilize tribes inital API and bought a V2, (nothing short of beautiful) well around this time, the rumor of OpenGL support was announced, we beta tested and beta tested for about 6 months, each version was horrible. The mouse wouldnt even scroll over the GUI whatesover much like having a 1k ping. Alot of people bitched about this- and finally gave up.... the fact is- the game doesnt support it well... at least in every instance I have seen. I hear the best alternative is a wrapper offered on this page... I have SLI V2, and again the GL performance is WORSE than software... If there was maybe a 'wrapper" could implemented for TRIBES they should do so.... regarding opimizing the GL for tribes...it would be futile. As the game doesnt support it well.....


INSPECTAH DECK's UNCONTROLLED SUBSTANCE IS OUT!

The Rev
9th October 1999, 15:47
I hear a lot of G400 users having a problem of getting kicked back to the desktop when trying to run OpenGL mode. One G400 user can't seem to get his to even run software mode.

I have not run into this problem. I'm currently using PD 5.30 on a Celeron processor. I'm also using the 1.9 patch for Tribes. I was talking to some of my friends with TNT2s and they seem quite happy with OpenGL look/performance. I have heard some VooDoo3 users tell me they are quite happy with Glide for Tribes.

I'm not sure whether Tribes OpenGL performance/looks are due to Dynamix's programming end, or Matrox's drivers, but I hope someone gets to the bottom of this.

Thanks,
A Tribes Player

LAMFDTK
9th October 1999, 17:09
DigitalWelfare you should see Tribes on a TNT card in OpenGL It blows away the V2. It is nothing short of AMAZING. Now I have sold off that card and am back to a V2/12 its a real big step down! Tribes will never work with any other card in OGL 'Cept Nvidia. BigAss bummer....Tribes 2 ???? who knows..


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PIII-450@504, 128 HDSRAM, Asus P3BF, G400/32, SBLive!, Nokia 447Xi 17", oh yea, a nice floppy drive

Zwisch
9th October 1999, 20:25
The problem with Tribes is indeed the OpenGL implemetation of the game, and not the hardware. The game was designed for Glide only... it is hence normal that it runs fine on a 3dfx card, if not, there is nothing left! As for OpenGL, I have heard that it was designed mostly with the assitance of nvidia, also why it is ok only on TNT cards. All the other manufacturer such as matrox, ati, s3, powervr... all have terrible problems with the game. There was a patch recently release, again, fpr the game, but I haven't tried it yet... I jsut hope that they put there mind into it a bit better in the release of tribes 2 so that normal opengl or d3d coding are implemented and playable with all cards...

Z

Tumu
10th October 1999, 06:40
If nVidia can get Tribes running fast with their OpenGL implementation and Matrox can't, then the problem is in the OpenGL drivers. Maybe Matrox should contact Dynamix (and nVidia too) to get the OGL issues resolved. I think that G400 has enough power to match nVidia's cards.

-Tumu

Zwisch
10th October 1999, 07:54
But you have to agree that it is not up to matrox to do OpenGL drivers for ALL games out there. If the game manufacturer cannot do a good implememtation of this API, then why should video cards manufacturer start making them for them??? This API should have been made standard to work with all cards to begin with and this does not only appear with matrox cards... your complaint should go to dynamic.

The Rev
10th October 1999, 14:44
"If the game manufacturer cannot do a good implememtation of this API, then why should video cards manufacturer start making them for them???"

Very good point. Matrox can't go running around fixing their OpenGL drivers because of poor programming. But also:

"If nVidia can get Tribes running fast with their OpenGL implementation and Matrox can't, then the problem is in the OpenGL drivers. Maybe Matrox should contact Dynamix (and nVidia too) to get the OGL issues resolved."

I find it strange that Tribes runs fine on the TNT2's OpenGL drivers, yet does not on the G400's. Isn't there some sort of standard for OpenGL? Did Tribes not follow this standard?

Plus Matrox is taking steps in their drivers to up the performance and take out bugs in lots of leading games. What is preventing Matrox from fixing all the Starsiege Tribes bugs?

I'm also going to try to contact Dynamix for some answers. I hope this thread makes it to someone in Matrox that can resolve this matter.

Let's Get This Goin!

LAMFDTK
10th October 1999, 15:58
Tribes is a huge hit on line!! There are 300-500 servers and they are packed some nights. It is an amazing game to say the least. I have spend more time playing this game on-line this past year than anything else. I hope that Dynamix comes to terms with their code for Tribes 2. THAT game will ruin my sleep for a few long months....Have you seen that puppy? WOW. Any one that has not play Tribes is missing out big time

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PIII-450@504, 128 HDSRAM, Asus P3BF, G400/32, SBLive!, Nokia 447Xi 17", oh yea, a nice floppy drive


[This message has been edited by LAMFDTK (edited 10-11-1999).]

The Rev
10th October 1999, 17:19
Yeah! Tribes2 looks very impressive. I just hope Dynamix will still fix the OpenGL problems with Tribes1 even though Tribes2 will be arriving eventually.

I'm trying to contact Dynamix and see what can be done.

Thanks,
A Tribes Player

[This message has been edited by The Rev (edited 10-11-1999).]

The Rev
10th October 1999, 17:44
LAMFDTK you said "Tribes will never work with any other card in OGL 'Cept Nvidia."

Why is that? I just don't understand what nVidia's OpenGL drivers have that Matrox's doesn't. If Tribes in OpenGL mode uses the OpenGL API whether on a TNT or G400, why is there such a difference between the cards?

One thing I do notice is Tribes has a lil pull down menu for Setup for OpenGL. YOu can select General, i740, or TNT. ON a G400, i740 and General look like what I described on my first post. But on TNT setup in Tribes, all the colors seem inverted and looks QUITE strange, although faster. Not playable since the colors are screwy.

So if a TNT can play Tribes in OpenGL, what is holding back a G400 from playing it?

Thanks,
A Tribes Player

Cmag
10th October 1999, 21:29
The problem is definately with the game and not with the G400 drivers. The problem is, is that the game wasn't coded properly for OpenGL. It's Starsiege that has to make improvements in order to get the G400 to perform properly. It's not imposible for the game to play properly on a G400, but the game developers have to fix their current problems in order for this to happen. I'm just not sure whether they will or not with this version. With Tribes 2 on the way, i'm sure they will not make the same mistakes again.

Cmag

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Consequences smonsequences, as long as Iím rich


[This message has been edited by Cmag (edited 10-11-1999).]

The Rev
11th October 1999, 03:30
"The problem is, is that the game wasn't coded properly for OpenGL."

Cmag: Not to be rude, but i'm wondering if this is assumption or absolute fact. If Dynamix uses OpenGL API, then if a call to the API is made, wouldn't it be the TNT2/G400 ICD drivers to do the work? I'm confused when it comes to Tribes not be coded correctly. Can you/anyone explain?

Thanks,
A Tribes Player

The Rev
11th October 1999, 05:38
Hmmm sounds interesting. Well I wrote the Dynamix Techies and some Sierra Suggestion box. Maybe some kind soul at Dynamix will fix this problem in the near future.SOunds slim though.

Thanks,
A Tribes Player

DigitalWelfare
11th October 1999, 07:04
Keep in mind that the game was origianlly Glide only... They didnt ever recommend anyone to use OpenGL and I dont believe it even supported ( see patch 1.6) which states this... The GL regarding NVIDa is strange to me, becuase they have a full ICD, and Matrox now has a Full ICD. You would think that the card should work. The fact is this though: THE GAME WAS NOT MEANT FOR OGL. Tribes 2 in fact will be, and should look fantastic.... the easiest way to tell is this: STARSIEGE had built in OGL support. PLay the demo that came with Tribes, or download the demo- you will see the "correct coding" for OGL. Its much diffrent than tribes.. Tribes 2 will be optomized for higher performance, and graphics, utilizing all 3 API's.... tribes 2 will be the shit.

The Rev
11th October 1999, 13:05
Any idea on when Tribes2 is being released?
Looks very awesome indeed!

DigitalWelfare
11th October 1999, 13:15
Have no clue with the shutdown of dynamax... dont know what their issues are gonna be...they may complete it, they may sell it.... I suggest they post it on the net for a free download to everyone.... their severance packages couldnt possibly make up for the hard work they put into it....and no reason for An extinct company to bank on it....

Sorry- that was no help huh? http://www.tribesplayers.com/tribesplayers/img/extreme/screenshots/shot015.jpg

The Rev
11th October 1999, 14:22
"Have no clue with the shutdown of dynamax"
What? You saying Dynamix has closed down? Where did you hear this?

Zwisch
11th October 1999, 16:36
Hi,

If I am not mistaken, the game works fine with TNT cards since the OpenGL implememtation was designed with the assistance of nvidia. hence this is a card specefic OpenGL and not a full implementation. You could see it a bit like a miniGL driver for nvidia... It is unfortunately true that there are still several bugs in games that Matrox is fixing with their latest drivers, but the BIG difference with Tribes is that ... it is not just Matrox that has a problem, like some other games, but here ONLY nvidia works fine... other manufacturer such as ATI, S3, etc. all have the same problems as Matrox with this game... So I thing the miniGL theory would be the best one out there... except that they do notclearly say that it is one http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/smile.gif

Z